I’ve definitely experienced step jumps down in quality on an almost daily basis. I usually used xhigh. The experience of relying on codex’s outstandingly thorough coding earlier in the year has evaporated for me. I’m seeing incredibly stupid implementations intermittently, and have simply switched to Claude until openai takes the issue seriously. As far as i could tell they haven’t taken it seriously for the several months I’ve been personally seeing it.
I've switched 3 months ago to Codex because Claude got incredibly stupid. 6 months ago vice versa. It doesn't matter if you use Codex or Claude. Both will fuck with you at some point. Though Codex probably less.
i don't ever believe these issues are technical. They're business decisions to downgrade performance because to fix it means $$$$ and you arn't paying them enough.
Oh this seems bad, and is fairly easy to reproduce using codex cli. You give it a puzzle prompt that it has to reason about and solve, occasionally it will seemingly short circuit and think for exactly 516 tokens, and return the wrong result. When it ends up using 6000-8000 thinking tokens it returns the correct result.
Maybe some issue with adaptive thinking? Another point for local models I guess, don't have to worry about silent server side changes.
Maybe its just bad memory but I feel like 5.3 was the best version in terms of token usage and code quality. 5.5 works better but it just eviscerates tokens.
Deja Vu... This looks just like the Claude Code performance regression back in April. I just quit my Claude subscription when that happened and went to Codex.
Now I'm kinda thinking of trying per token for both, using GLM 5.2 on Fireworks for most tasks, shelling out to the big boys only when needed. Not totally confident I'll break even though.
Right? I also quit Claude Code and switch to Codex over that. Now I’m trying to figure out how I could make an extra $65,000 to never have to be concerned about this nonsense again. I know the economics of using open router etc…
But I’m reminded of ~2008 and the rise of “the cloud” as a marketing term that seemed to me to be a cover for dropping an expectation of rich clients, increasing a companies margins around subscriptions that would chip away at local ownership.
Then I got offput by the zealotry and absolutism around “true FoSS”, told myself I was young and moved on.
And really, a lot of subscription models I kind of can appreciate/ tolerate. Might be irksome but whatever, I get that software is expensive to make and it’s not fair in 2026 to value a yearly upgrade of Photoshop at $200. The capricious UI changes to things that’ve worked for 20 years and they take away say the classic color swatches altogether - silly and dumb.
I can use another professionally necessary tool I pay $200/ mo for, Codex, to whip up a classic swatch plugin.
Is that $200 a fair price for my token usage? I think an extremely heavy month I might’ve used a billion tokens?
But that right there is the problem. They have no idea what, specifically, profitability looks like and are going to be pulling endless levers for … I genuinely have no idea how long - at least through 2030/2032 if we tea leaves their debt obligations?
I don’t want to think about any of that. At all. I don’t want to spend time evaluating model preference and degradation and updating the nuances of how I “speak” to an AI because there’s some mystery backend experiment running on the output I use to produce functional outputs — ie the actual products I get paid to build/ maintain.
AI’s something between a tool and coworking companion, and the capricious “personality” changes due to playing with poorly understood and knobs and levers at the inference level - is maddening. To that end, I want a box in the corner I can point to and know exactly the quality of outputs that no one but myself modifies.
The vibe-assumed claude code performance regression, yep. People should stop expecting consistent performance from non-deterministic systems. There is zero empirical corroboration of performance degredation.
There has been a step change... in the amount of whining and complaining coders exhibit lately.
When I disagree with the data: I will nitpick every last detail of methodology,
any cross-corroboration is an anecdote, suddenly I demand a-priori levels of
justification. All science is flawed anyways, it's not like mathematics, you
can't get absolute certainty, so why bother? You're always going to be making
base assumptions that can be challenged, you're necessarily going to abstract
out the territory, the map is flawed.
When I agree with the data: I will boast about the victories of science and
empiricism, we found the perfect set of natural abstractions that are necessary
and sufficient to map out the territory that carve at the joints of the
problem, any concern about assumptions is rebutted with generic "Well, we're
just pragmatists; we're not perfect, but clearly we're converging on the right
direction! You're clearly someone who just wants to nitpick and not get any
work done."
My experience with certain hackernews commenters in a nutshell.
Isn't the standard to use continuous batching? If they are using continuous batching -- I'm curious why generated token length matters, and why they might be clustering them. If not -- I'm curious why they aren't and what is the tradeoff here.
It seems to be an inference engine or agent harness defect/misconfig rather. Not only do the issue details not evidence a willful stealth nerf, they actively suggest otherwise: the root cause is crude, and evidently not particularly stealthy (as it's being reported on by a regular user with independently verifiable, exact details).
I don't find "usual user psychosis" particularly fair or tasteful anyhow. You're not left with much more than subjective judgement and speculation/suspicion when all you have is a magic sink of an API endpoint that ingests your context window then spits back a continuation of it. Even if you have a standardized model test suite, claiming a stealth nerf remains an exercise in mind reading (of the people working there). Model quality can degrade without an explicit intention that way, or a downgrade of the underlying infrastructure, after all.
Being tongue-in-cheek conspiratorial, or even actually entertaining the possibility of a nerf, is no psychosis anyways. Not a fan of this trend of people abusing psychology diagnosis terminology like this. I'm sure there are people who go a step beyond and are overconfident in these judgements, maybe in their case it holds. But then that's a minority, and so what you have then is a hyperboly. Doesn't serve anyone.
"They made the model dumber" on literally the same checkpoint with the same prompt on the same quantization running on the same hardware is a staple of AI complaints.
Users are completely incapable of objectively evaluating model quality.
Which makes it all the harder to notice actual "stealth nerfs", misconfigurations or other technical issues. Because "they made the model DUMBER, for REAL this time" is background noise.
My understanding of the rumor is that it wasn't OpenAI itself, but one of the post-blip OpenAI breakaway groups (rumoured to be Thinking Machines) who have made a breakthrough and seem to be shopping it to OpenAI. I don't think it has actually been implemented by OpenAI yet.
That was an article in The Information but it didn't read very well to me, I didn't get the impression the author was enough of a technical expert on how LLMs work to credibly evaluate the claim, which came from an insider rumor: https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-...
> OpenAI engineers earlier this month told some colleagues they had figured out a way to more than halve the cost of inference, or running existing models, thanks to some newly-discovered optimizations, according to a person with knowledge of those discussions.
It's been a month I've been using it as they gave me for free, and I found GPT-5 on Codex quite weird/awful. Even x-high. Then I figured out I should try OMP (Pi), and the experience was much better.
Personally, I would say very likely, to be honest. I gotta go through this a little more, but I actually use 5.5 codex an obscene amount, and I almost never use it for reasoning anymore. It's not even in the same galaxy as far as actually taking out the thinking and using GPT-5.5 or even Claude and then coming back and giving it the reasoning. Blah blah blah, it's the same model. Well, let me tell you, no, it's not, for several reasons, and the delta on intelligence is pretty staggering.
I'm struggling as well to understand, and I think perhaps they mean they use ChatGPT website with GPT-5.5+reasoning for problem solving, and paste the output into Codex CLI/App. I think they're saying that letting Codex CLI/App problem solve with GPT-5.5 isn't as effective. Essentially that the web harness is superior to the agentic engineering harness for problem solving?
Not sure if I agree, but I do happen to use a fair bit of web harness as well, just because I find it to be much more effective at web search and a different type of reasoning. So I must agree a little or else I wouldn't do that.
I assume they are lying and still think you can use gpt 5.5 non-codex within codex cli. And they outed themselves. A lot of nonsense. And the very poor communication skills just seem like the typical chinese astroturfing you see pretty often now when discussing OAI/Claude.
I know that these types of comments are not really popular here, but this struck a chord with me because I feel the same. They aren't remotely close.
I have codex right now purely because they gave me a month free of ChatGPT Pro, so I have been using it in between my usage resets with claude. Since it's "free money" for me I have been using it exclusively on xHigh.
One of my most frequent prompts is "hey codex worked on ____, but it didn't quite hit the mark, can we review the work..."
Yes, part of this is normal even within the same model -- you have the highest power model review the work for correctness, refactoring opportunities, and so on, but man I tell you, I don't know what it is about codex, this is obviously one guy's anecdote -- same prompting style, same repository documentation ala MD files, same skills, way different results.
All that to say, maybe the bug report is on to something here, and it can be fixed.
I’ve definitely experienced step jumps down in quality on an almost daily basis. I usually used xhigh. The experience of relying on codex’s outstandingly thorough coding earlier in the year has evaporated for me. I’m seeing incredibly stupid implementations intermittently, and have simply switched to Claude until openai takes the issue seriously. As far as i could tell they haven’t taken it seriously for the several months I’ve been personally seeing it.
I've switched 3 months ago to Codex because Claude got incredibly stupid. 6 months ago vice versa. It doesn't matter if you use Codex or Claude. Both will fuck with you at some point. Though Codex probably less.
At least OpenAI lets me use my own harness. Having to rely on insane PMs letting Claude Mythos go wild on the codebase has not been going well lately.
i don't ever believe these issues are technical. They're business decisions to downgrade performance because to fix it means $$$$ and you arn't paying them enough.
Oh this seems bad, and is fairly easy to reproduce using codex cli. You give it a puzzle prompt that it has to reason about and solve, occasionally it will seemingly short circuit and think for exactly 516 tokens, and return the wrong result. When it ends up using 6000-8000 thinking tokens it returns the correct result.
Maybe some issue with adaptive thinking? Another point for local models I guess, don't have to worry about silent server side changes.
Maybe its just bad memory but I feel like 5.3 was the best version in terms of token usage and code quality. 5.5 works better but it just eviscerates tokens.
They rendered 5.3 unusable for me a few weeks back. It simply was locking up or answering poorly.
Deja Vu... This looks just like the Claude Code performance regression back in April. I just quit my Claude subscription when that happened and went to Codex.
Now I'm kinda thinking of trying per token for both, using GLM 5.2 on Fireworks for most tasks, shelling out to the big boys only when needed. Not totally confident I'll break even though.
Right? I also quit Claude Code and switch to Codex over that. Now I’m trying to figure out how I could make an extra $65,000 to never have to be concerned about this nonsense again. I know the economics of using open router etc…
But I’m reminded of ~2008 and the rise of “the cloud” as a marketing term that seemed to me to be a cover for dropping an expectation of rich clients, increasing a companies margins around subscriptions that would chip away at local ownership.
Then I got offput by the zealotry and absolutism around “true FoSS”, told myself I was young and moved on.
And really, a lot of subscription models I kind of can appreciate/ tolerate. Might be irksome but whatever, I get that software is expensive to make and it’s not fair in 2026 to value a yearly upgrade of Photoshop at $200. The capricious UI changes to things that’ve worked for 20 years and they take away say the classic color swatches altogether - silly and dumb.
I can use another professionally necessary tool I pay $200/ mo for, Codex, to whip up a classic swatch plugin.
Is that $200 a fair price for my token usage? I think an extremely heavy month I might’ve used a billion tokens?
But that right there is the problem. They have no idea what, specifically, profitability looks like and are going to be pulling endless levers for … I genuinely have no idea how long - at least through 2030/2032 if we tea leaves their debt obligations?
I don’t want to think about any of that. At all. I don’t want to spend time evaluating model preference and degradation and updating the nuances of how I “speak” to an AI because there’s some mystery backend experiment running on the output I use to produce functional outputs — ie the actual products I get paid to build/ maintain.
AI’s something between a tool and coworking companion, and the capricious “personality” changes due to playing with poorly understood and knobs and levers at the inference level - is maddening. To that end, I want a box in the corner I can point to and know exactly the quality of outputs that no one but myself modifies.
The vibe-assumed claude code performance regression, yep. People should stop expecting consistent performance from non-deterministic systems. There is zero empirical corroboration of performance degredation.
There has been a step change... in the amount of whining and complaining coders exhibit lately.
If you bother to look at the issue instead of whining and complaining, you will see the evidence.
When I disagree with the data: I will nitpick every last detail of methodology, any cross-corroboration is an anecdote, suddenly I demand a-priori levels of justification. All science is flawed anyways, it's not like mathematics, you can't get absolute certainty, so why bother? You're always going to be making base assumptions that can be challenged, you're necessarily going to abstract out the territory, the map is flawed.
When I agree with the data: I will boast about the victories of science and empiricism, we found the perfect set of natural abstractions that are necessary and sufficient to map out the territory that carve at the joints of the problem, any concern about assumptions is rebutted with generic "Well, we're just pragmatists; we're not perfect, but clearly we're converging on the right direction! You're clearly someone who just wants to nitpick and not get any work done."
My experience with certain hackernews commenters in a nutshell.
[dead]
Clearly they are batching reasoning inference in a few multiples of 512 tokens as a throughput optimization
Isn't the standard to use continuous batching? If they are using continuous batching -- I'm curious why generated token length matters, and why they might be clustering them. If not -- I'm curious why they aren't and what is the tradeoff here.
A rare case "they made the model dumber" where they actually made the model dumber, instead of the usual user psychosis?
It seems to be an inference engine or agent harness defect/misconfig rather. Not only do the issue details not evidence a willful stealth nerf, they actively suggest otherwise: the root cause is crude, and evidently not particularly stealthy (as it's being reported on by a regular user with independently verifiable, exact details).
I don't find "usual user psychosis" particularly fair or tasteful anyhow. You're not left with much more than subjective judgement and speculation/suspicion when all you have is a magic sink of an API endpoint that ingests your context window then spits back a continuation of it. Even if you have a standardized model test suite, claiming a stealth nerf remains an exercise in mind reading (of the people working there). Model quality can degrade without an explicit intention that way, or a downgrade of the underlying infrastructure, after all.
Being tongue-in-cheek conspiratorial, or even actually entertaining the possibility of a nerf, is no psychosis anyways. Not a fan of this trend of people abusing psychology diagnosis terminology like this. I'm sure there are people who go a step beyond and are overconfident in these judgements, maybe in their case it holds. But then that's a minority, and so what you have then is a hyperboly. Doesn't serve anyone.
"They made the model dumber" on literally the same checkpoint with the same prompt on the same quantization running on the same hardware is a staple of AI complaints.
Users are completely incapable of objectively evaluating model quality.
Which makes it all the harder to notice actual "stealth nerfs", misconfigurations or other technical issues. Because "they made the model DUMBER, for REAL this time" is background noise.
I swear some days ago someone here claimed Openai succeeded cutting down their compute cost by half with a breakthrough optimization. So this is it?
My understanding of the rumor is that it wasn't OpenAI itself, but one of the post-blip OpenAI breakaway groups (rumoured to be Thinking Machines) who have made a breakthrough and seem to be shopping it to OpenAI. I don't think it has actually been implemented by OpenAI yet.
That was an article in The Information but it didn't read very well to me, I didn't get the impression the author was enough of a technical expert on how LLMs work to credibly evaluate the claim, which came from an insider rumor: https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-...
> OpenAI engineers earlier this month told some colleagues they had figured out a way to more than halve the cost of inference, or running existing models, thanks to some newly-discovered optimizations, according to a person with knowledge of those discussions.
It's been a month I've been using it as they gave me for free, and I found GPT-5 on Codex quite weird/awful. Even x-high. Then I figured out I should try OMP (Pi), and the experience was much better.
I remember GPT 5.2 Codex being fine...
tldr:
GPT-5.5 Codex model exhibits a clustering phenomenon in which reasoning_output_tokens cluster at fixed values spaced 518 apart.
These stuck responses at fixed thresholds are strongly correlated with errors in complex tasks.
Observed phenomenon is specific to GPT-5.5; it is much less prevalent in GPT-5.4 and almost absent in GPT-5.2 and 5.3
[dead]
[flagged]
Personally, I would say very likely, to be honest. I gotta go through this a little more, but I actually use 5.5 codex an obscene amount, and I almost never use it for reasoning anymore. It's not even in the same galaxy as far as actually taking out the thinking and using GPT-5.5 or even Claude and then coming back and giving it the reasoning. Blah blah blah, it's the same model. Well, let me tell you, no, it's not, for several reasons, and the delta on intelligence is pretty staggering.
Care to explain what you mean by that?
I'm struggling as well to understand, and I think perhaps they mean they use ChatGPT website with GPT-5.5+reasoning for problem solving, and paste the output into Codex CLI/App. I think they're saying that letting Codex CLI/App problem solve with GPT-5.5 isn't as effective. Essentially that the web harness is superior to the agentic engineering harness for problem solving?
Not sure if I agree, but I do happen to use a fair bit of web harness as well, just because I find it to be much more effective at web search and a different type of reasoning. So I must agree a little or else I wouldn't do that.
I assume they are lying and still think you can use gpt 5.5 non-codex within codex cli. And they outed themselves. A lot of nonsense. And the very poor communication skills just seem like the typical chinese astroturfing you see pretty often now when discussing OAI/Claude.
I know that these types of comments are not really popular here, but this struck a chord with me because I feel the same. They aren't remotely close.
I have codex right now purely because they gave me a month free of ChatGPT Pro, so I have been using it in between my usage resets with claude. Since it's "free money" for me I have been using it exclusively on xHigh.
One of my most frequent prompts is "hey codex worked on ____, but it didn't quite hit the mark, can we review the work..."
Yes, part of this is normal even within the same model -- you have the highest power model review the work for correctness, refactoring opportunities, and so on, but man I tell you, I don't know what it is about codex, this is obviously one guy's anecdote -- same prompting style, same repository documentation ala MD files, same skills, way different results.
All that to say, maybe the bug report is on to something here, and it can be fixed.
What?