Going to such a different form factor feels enough like relearning to type that I found it also to be a good time to learn a better layout than qwerty.
I find it strange that people who start caring about ergonomics settle for Ergodox, Moonlander and other halfway there solutions when Kinesis, Glove80, Maltron who have put in real ergonomic research exist..
My Kinesis Freestyle 2 will always be the greatest ergo keyboard I've ever owned - with cables. I can tilt at 5, 10, 15 degree angles. I can move the two parts differently (and do), and with the risers, I can tilt it 90 degrees - which I'm never doing. The flexibility is perfect for me, so I keep one at home, and one in the office.
I really didn't enjoy the cheap plastic construction of the Moonlander. I had two of them for home and work. I even modded a mousepad onto the wristrests to make it more comftable.
But in the end the housing being out of plastic, it creaked, wobbled and just was not satisfying to type on.
I came from premium mechnical keyboards with solid steel or aluminum construction.
I ended up with the Neo Ergo, a middle ground. Not as ergonomic, but solid feel, no plastic and great looks too.
Oh you mean… OK. The one on my 2008 unibody MacBook, which I likely put the most hours in on of any of them. Then the one on my ancient and lovely Thinkpad T240 — one of the most pragmatically delightful computers ever — and probably the N33SX I owned in 1992.
The keyboard on the M1 Max MBP is quite nice, too.
After a decade of exploring various mechanical keyboards (a few form factors, but mostly exploring the switches), I settled on a Topre Realforce around 2016 and fell in love. I later learned of the Topre silent switches (often branded as "Type-S"), and have used those ever since over many few boards: a HHKB, a Leopold FC660C with a PCB swap for programmable layers, various revisions of the Realforce.
I used a friend's ErgoDox a few years ago, and quite liked it, but what holds me back is the Topre switches. If only it was feasible to acquire individual Topre switches and put them onto a custom PCB...
Here's hoping someone on HN will swoop in and tell me "It's totally possible! Just _____!"
Some enthusiasts have made custom PCBs for Topre and Niz switches, even columnar ergo. I've not seen the ErgoDox layout specifically, and I dunno how to source individual switches though.
There is also the XVX Whisper switch, with has a Topre-like mechanism for Hall Effect keyboards: with a magnet under the dome. You could buy pack of switches but reviews say it is mushier than Topre.
IMHO the persistence of Model M (now Unicomp) worship is a meme. Yes a chunky Buckling Spring mechanism is a very unique and "fun" feel, but that doesn't mean it's actually good to do a lot of typing on in terms of ergonomics or speed. So what then? It's a novelty item, not the ultimate keyboard.
As someone who's tried several keyboards, a key feature I've found myself unable to go without is contouring of the keyboard. Keyboards like Kinesis Advantage 2, Kinesis Advantage 360 and the Glove 80 essentially. I've personally found it the biggest gain to reducing strain on my left hand.
I have a Moonlander but I could never get used to it, even when remapping some keys so that tab is where my muscle memory expects it to be. But maybe trying to use it for both windows (play) and macos (work) was a problem. I should give it another go. Of course another issue may be that I'm very much a mouse-and-keyboard person instead of a keyboard wizard.
I should get an alternative to my old compact / flat apple keyboard one day though. It's been going strong for nearly a decade.
Any QWERTY or QWERTY-inspired keyboard (layout) is silly.
Switching to orto without solving a real bottleneck is like changing Opel to Porshe but keep using a set of square wheels. Of course the car will run better, but...
I have a moonlander and love it for typing. My issue is that I use my mouse a bunch as well, and find it awkward to switch my right hand to the ouse and back again. Does the touchpad work better for this?
Dactyl Manuform 3x6 for me.
Going to such a different form factor feels enough like relearning to type that I found it also to be a good time to learn a better layout than qwerty.
I use my own layout called hubris:
https://github.com/jpease/hubris
I find it strange that people who start caring about ergonomics settle for Ergodox, Moonlander and other halfway there solutions when Kinesis, Glove80, Maltron who have put in real ergonomic research exist..
My Kinesis Freestyle 2 will always be the greatest ergo keyboard I've ever owned - with cables. I can tilt at 5, 10, 15 degree angles. I can move the two parts differently (and do), and with the risers, I can tilt it 90 degrees - which I'm never doing. The flexibility is perfect for me, so I keep one at home, and one in the office.
I really didn't enjoy the cheap plastic construction of the Moonlander. I had two of them for home and work. I even modded a mousepad onto the wristrests to make it more comftable.
But in the end the housing being out of plastic, it creaked, wobbled and just was not satisfying to type on.
I came from premium mechnical keyboards with solid steel or aluminum construction.
I ended up with the Neo Ergo, a middle ground. Not as ergonomic, but solid feel, no plastic and great looks too.
Yamaha DX7.
Oh you mean… OK. The one on my 2008 unibody MacBook, which I likely put the most hours in on of any of them. Then the one on my ancient and lovely Thinkpad T240 — one of the most pragmatically delightful computers ever — and probably the N33SX I owned in 1992.
The keyboard on the M1 Max MBP is quite nice, too.
What, did Korg release an M1 Max? How did I miss it?
Yeah. Loads more keys.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045464/
After a decade of exploring various mechanical keyboards (a few form factors, but mostly exploring the switches), I settled on a Topre Realforce around 2016 and fell in love. I later learned of the Topre silent switches (often branded as "Type-S"), and have used those ever since over many few boards: a HHKB, a Leopold FC660C with a PCB swap for programmable layers, various revisions of the Realforce.
I used a friend's ErgoDox a few years ago, and quite liked it, but what holds me back is the Topre switches. If only it was feasible to acquire individual Topre switches and put them onto a custom PCB...
Here's hoping someone on HN will swoop in and tell me "It's totally possible! Just _____!"
Some enthusiasts have made custom PCBs for Topre and Niz switches, even columnar ergo. I've not seen the ErgoDox layout specifically, and I dunno how to source individual switches though.
There is also the XVX Whisper switch, with has a Topre-like mechanism for Hall Effect keyboards: with a magnet under the dome. You could buy pack of switches but reviews say it is mushier than Topre.
IMHO the persistence of Model M (now Unicomp) worship is a meme. Yes a chunky Buckling Spring mechanism is a very unique and "fun" feel, but that doesn't mean it's actually good to do a lot of typing on in terms of ergonomics or speed. So what then? It's a novelty item, not the ultimate keyboard.
As someone who's tried several keyboards, a key feature I've found myself unable to go without is contouring of the keyboard. Keyboards like Kinesis Advantage 2, Kinesis Advantage 360 and the Glove 80 essentially. I've personally found it the biggest gain to reducing strain on my left hand.
I have a Moonlander but I could never get used to it, even when remapping some keys so that tab is where my muscle memory expects it to be. But maybe trying to use it for both windows (play) and macos (work) was a problem. I should give it another go. Of course another issue may be that I'm very much a mouse-and-keyboard person instead of a keyboard wizard.
I should get an alternative to my old compact / flat apple keyboard one day though. It's been going strong for nearly a decade.
Any QWERTY or QWERTY-inspired keyboard (layout) is silly.
Switching to orto without solving a real bottleneck is like changing Opel to Porshe but keep using a set of square wheels. Of course the car will run better, but...
For anyone interested in a single-body, low-profile mechanical keyboard with a split layout, checkout PERIBOARD-335. Highly recommend it.
I have a moonlander and love it for typing. My issue is that I use my mouse a bunch as well, and find it awkward to switch my right hand to the ouse and back again. Does the touchpad work better for this?
That list really misses Glove80! It's an incredible keyboard, and imo is better than the Moonlander at practically everything.
Edit: on second thought, I guess some people might not like the low switches?