A comment <https://github.com/LuaJIT/LuaJIT/issues/1475#issuecomment-47...> has already been made on the issue regarding the ternary operator, recommending `if x then y else z` over `x ? y : z`. This is exactly how it's done with if-then-else expressions in Luau <https://luau.org/syntax/#if-then-else-expressions>, another language compatible with Lua, and makes it a ton easier to nest (especially with elseif) and I believe still easier to read than `y if x else z`.
Never will I understand ternary operators. As soon as you introduce it, some chuckle heads want to use them everywhere. Worse if the syntax allows nested ternarys. I guess it keeps the language open for code golfing, but it otherwise seems like redundant syntax that at best saves a few characters.
I find it most useful in languages that have non-mutable variables and you want to avoid a mutable variable or an extra function when the value comes from a simple condition.
I guess for the JS case it makes sense to be able to shave a few characters for file shrinking purposes, but generally I'm more biased to code clarity and "self-explainability"
This is the best answer in my opinion. Ternary is just sugar for an expressive if. LuaJIT seems to be focusing on adding new syntax though, maintainer might not be amenable to updating existing semantics.
So is LuaJIT resuming active development after a decade or so of only maintenance? Great!
A lot of these changes make sense (although some of them are a bit too TIMTOWTDI for my taste) - but perhaps LuaJIT 3 would benefit from a change of name as well? Certainly with all these changes, it would be more like a separate language than merely a JIT-compiled version of Lua.
That takes me back a bit. It's a perl-ism. I used to think it was a great design feature but I've come to strongly prefer "There should be one way to do it, and it should be obvious"
Some of these really look like QoL improvements. I'm not convinced ternary statements are an ergonomic improvement in particular. The examples given don't make a compelling case, 'visually tidy' is not the same as readable.
I would love to see all of these come to LuaJIT (and love2d to support the new version too). It’s nice that Lua is simple, the syntax changes should hopefully make Lua code even simpler to read too
> It’s nice that Lua is simple, the syntax changes should hopefully make Lua code even simpler to read too
But which Lua?
Lua as implemented by LuaJIT is a fork of the language at this point. It's not fully compatible with PUC Lua (the reference implementation) and LuaJIT does not support features from the latest Lua version.
Looks like LuaJIT is really going to fork away from Lua this time. After these changes, it won't be a compatible Lua 5.1 implementation anymore, it will be a new language.
A comment <https://github.com/LuaJIT/LuaJIT/issues/1475#issuecomment-47...> has already been made on the issue regarding the ternary operator, recommending `if x then y else z` over `x ? y : z`. This is exactly how it's done with if-then-else expressions in Luau <https://luau.org/syntax/#if-then-else-expressions>, another language compatible with Lua, and makes it a ton easier to nest (especially with elseif) and I believe still easier to read than `y if x else z`.
Never will I understand ternary operators. As soon as you introduce it, some chuckle heads want to use them everywhere. Worse if the syntax allows nested ternarys. I guess it keeps the language open for code golfing, but it otherwise seems like redundant syntax that at best saves a few characters.
Lua basically already has ternary operators anyway since "and" and "or" short circuit. I also don't see the need of adding additional syntax for it.
> The classic Lua idiom a and b or c has a pitfall when b is nil or false: then c is returned, even when a is truthy.
> E.g. true and false or 42 returns 42, whereas true ? false : 42 returns the (expected) false.
I find it most useful in languages that have non-mutable variables and you want to avoid a mutable variable or an extra function when the value comes from a simple condition.
I guess for the JS case it makes sense to be able to shave a few characters for file shrinking purposes, but generally I'm more biased to code clarity and "self-explainability"
That’s why “if” should just be an expression
This is the best answer in my opinion. Ternary is just sugar for an expressive if. LuaJIT seems to be focusing on adding new syntax though, maintainer might not be amenable to updating existing semantics.
So is LuaJIT resuming active development after a decade or so of only maintenance? Great!
A lot of these changes make sense (although some of them are a bit too TIMTOWTDI for my taste) - but perhaps LuaJIT 3 would benefit from a change of name as well? Certainly with all these changes, it would be more like a separate language than merely a JIT-compiled version of Lua.
>TIMTOWTDI
What on earth is this supposed to mean?
There Is More Than One Way To Do It.
That takes me back a bit. It's a perl-ism. I used to think it was a great design feature but I've come to strongly prefer "There should be one way to do it, and it should be obvious"
Interesting, thank you.
There is more than one way to do it.
I see JavaScript.
Some of these really look like QoL improvements. I'm not convinced ternary statements are an ergonomic improvement in particular. The examples given don't make a compelling case, 'visually tidy' is not the same as readable.
Worse, I see C (as in ! or &&), and Perl (as in manifestly more than one way to do it).
There are real improvements though, such as ?. and ??= that help with default-nullable everything.
Ternary is very useful, but it I'd rather see it implemented idiomatically:
Structural pattern-matching could be fantastic, but no syntax is suggested.I would love to see all of these come to LuaJIT (and love2d to support the new version too). It’s nice that Lua is simple, the syntax changes should hopefully make Lua code even simpler to read too
> It’s nice that Lua is simple, the syntax changes should hopefully make Lua code even simpler to read too
But which Lua?
Lua as implemented by LuaJIT is a fork of the language at this point. It's not fully compatible with PUC Lua (the reference implementation) and LuaJIT does not support features from the latest Lua version.
Looks like LuaJIT is really going to fork away from Lua this time. After these changes, it won't be a compatible Lua 5.1 implementation anymore, it will be a new language.
So shouldn't it have a new name?
It could be opt in.
+= and ..= are things i find i'm constantly missing in lua.
Personally im a fan of introducing ternaranary operator in lua. Everyone uses `x and y or z` as a ternanary which i find way more confusing than ?:
I’m confused I thought Mike Pall left luajit and Laurence Tratt took over as maintainer?
I thought luajit had completely stopped feature updates