I was able to delete the target ship in the tutorial by selecting it and pressing delete, when I wanted to delete a mark next to it. Is that intentional?
I would like to try this, but would strongly prefer a demo on Steam that starts and runs fullscreen rather than playing it in the browser.
Can obviously fullscreen a browser tab etc - just that, playing it in the browser has a sense of impermanence that doesn’t mesh with needing to take a long time to learn and play it? I dunno, just feels like the wrong place for it
Is it? I'd really expect submarine sims to be wet. Rather extremely so.
In more seriousness, I think it's fine for this kind of simulator to be 'dry'. There are a million games on the market, each can have its own niche, I think this one appeals to a very specific type of nerd and doesn't need to appeal to the mass market (and really, probably can't without a degree of production value that goes beyond the scope of an indie game; I think to get mass appeal you would probably need hyperrealistic 3D graphics and such).
Thanks - yeah this is a tricky problem since on the one hand I don't want to frustrate users not being able to pause/unpause but on the other hand I need to not let them unpause too soon and have the ship be in the wrong position.
Currently it should be blocking unpausing until step 7 or so... and it also should auto-pause once the ship reaches step 8(?). I did both of these things for the reason you're saying, but maybe I need to do it even more "locked down", at least for the Basic Tutorial.
For what it is worth, I ended up playing the tutorial mostly in real time, i.e. without pausing, because that felt more authentic. Under that constraint, I did have to play it three times to get proficient enough with the tools to succeed, but it was a lot of fun to figure it out under time pressure too.
Something that helped me a lot was exploring how the firing solution changed when I changed various parameters in the TDC. I don't know if there's a way to build that kind of exploration into the tutorial. Maybe by splitting it up into segments, asking the user to handle only one measurement at a time, and illustrating how the firing solution changes?
It is, however, annoying to start up the tutorial and click next-next-next-next to dismiss all the text when playing around with its scenario. Maybe a "dismiss tutorial text" button somewhere in the start of the tutorial?
Something else it took some time to understand was how the TDC evolved the firing solution over time. I really appreciate the yellow ghost ship on the map, but maybe there could be four more ghost ships indicating computed positions one minute, two minutes, etc. into the future? Possibly with increasing transparency.
I have a couple of first impressions trying the basic tutorial on my phone. I like the idea a lot, so I hope the criticism isn't taken as spoilsport negativity by others.
Immediately, the music is way over the top. I had to turn down the volume and hope I wasn't missing out on anything important. I do get that it tries to set a mood, but without some flavor text or other introduction it feels incongruous to what is being presented.
Then, I found that the instructions given are very tool-oriented instead of goal-oriented. If I understood why I'm doing what I'm being asked to do I'd be a lot more motivated to keep going. Instead I'm being given a tour of "what all the buttons do". Meanwhile, I can't really see any of the tooltips/labels that pop up because my fingers are in the way.
Without some more polish, this feels more like a "take your kids to work day" simulator than a submarine warfare simulator. It's a bit of a shame because I am a fan of the simulator genre.
I super appreciate this feedback and don't at all take it as overly negative.
I have gone back and forth on whether to describe how to use the tools or instead to explain goals. I get what you're saying and will give this more thought.
(And the fact remains that with this many tools, it's simply really challenging to explain it in a clear and elegant way on a small device.)
Once you "get it" and know how everything works, then I think it can work well...but for something this complex, the issue is definitely going to be onboarding.
For me, part of the fun is in figuring out the "why" behind the "what". I really enjoyed getting a rundown of which tools were available to me, and then I get to figure out on my own how best to use them.
Oh wow, guess this is getting auto-reposted! I posted it a while back to 0 upvotes...
Anyways, this project has been a blast to make especially with all the free and public domain resources that are out there on WW2 stuff.
A few fun examples that helped me:
- an original Torpedo Data Computer manual https://maritime.org/tech/tdc.php
- an original recognition book of Japanese merchant ships https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/NHC/NewPDFs/USN/ONI%20Recog...
- an original report of the Battle of Leyte Gulf including a patrol zone map of US submarines on page 166 https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA003030.pdf
"Wow, it looks amazing, honey!" -John's Mom
hah!
I was able to delete the target ship in the tutorial by selecting it and pressing delete, when I wanted to delete a mark next to it. Is that intentional?
Whoops, that is a debug functionality that I accidentally left in. Thanks, fixed!
Very cool! I love the "dry" part of it: actual calculations of angles and speed estimations etc. Will keep an eye out for the launch!
I would like to try this, but would strongly prefer a demo on Steam that starts and runs fullscreen rather than playing it in the browser.
Can obviously fullscreen a browser tab etc - just that, playing it in the browser has a sense of impermanence that doesn’t mesh with needing to take a long time to learn and play it? I dunno, just feels like the wrong place for it
Definitely planning on getting a demo out. Which device are you on? I could add you as a beta tester if you're interested.
Edit: Also, you can add the page to your Home Screen on most browsers as a PWA app, and it's nearly like a full screen app.
Congrats on the launch. Looks interesting, though maybe a tad dry. Love the authenticity though. Have wish listed it and will keep an eye out.
Thanks a lot! Any ideas how to make it less dry? :) That's kind of par for the course for submarine sims, I suppose...
Is it? I'd really expect submarine sims to be wet. Rather extremely so.
In more seriousness, I think it's fine for this kind of simulator to be 'dry'. There are a million games on the market, each can have its own niche, I think this one appeals to a very specific type of nerd and doesn't need to appeal to the mass market (and really, probably can't without a degree of production value that goes beyond the scope of an indie game; I think to get mass appeal you would probably need hyperrealistic 3D graphics and such).
I would say in this case dry is preferred. It’s a niche thing. Let it be niche :) we need less common denominator content in the world.
I tried the tutorial, but got confused by when to start/stop time and it made everything become desynchronized from your tutorial instructions.
I then started the time again, when I shouldn't have and realized that I would have to do all the calculations all over.
You should either manage the time or give dynamic instructions.
Thanks - yeah this is a tricky problem since on the one hand I don't want to frustrate users not being able to pause/unpause but on the other hand I need to not let them unpause too soon and have the ship be in the wrong position.
Currently it should be blocking unpausing until step 7 or so... and it also should auto-pause once the ship reaches step 8(?). I did both of these things for the reason you're saying, but maybe I need to do it even more "locked down", at least for the Basic Tutorial.
For what it is worth, I ended up playing the tutorial mostly in real time, i.e. without pausing, because that felt more authentic. Under that constraint, I did have to play it three times to get proficient enough with the tools to succeed, but it was a lot of fun to figure it out under time pressure too.
Something that helped me a lot was exploring how the firing solution changed when I changed various parameters in the TDC. I don't know if there's a way to build that kind of exploration into the tutorial. Maybe by splitting it up into segments, asking the user to handle only one measurement at a time, and illustrating how the firing solution changes?
It is, however, annoying to start up the tutorial and click next-next-next-next to dismiss all the text when playing around with its scenario. Maybe a "dismiss tutorial text" button somewhere in the start of the tutorial?
Great feedback, thanks - and I'll think about a good way to let you just dismiss the tutorial text entirely...
Something else it took some time to understand was how the TDC evolved the firing solution over time. I really appreciate the yellow ghost ship on the map, but maybe there could be four more ghost ships indicating computed positions one minute, two minutes, etc. into the future? Possibly with increasing transparency.
I have a couple of first impressions trying the basic tutorial on my phone. I like the idea a lot, so I hope the criticism isn't taken as spoilsport negativity by others.
Immediately, the music is way over the top. I had to turn down the volume and hope I wasn't missing out on anything important. I do get that it tries to set a mood, but without some flavor text or other introduction it feels incongruous to what is being presented.
Then, I found that the instructions given are very tool-oriented instead of goal-oriented. If I understood why I'm doing what I'm being asked to do I'd be a lot more motivated to keep going. Instead I'm being given a tour of "what all the buttons do". Meanwhile, I can't really see any of the tooltips/labels that pop up because my fingers are in the way.
Without some more polish, this feels more like a "take your kids to work day" simulator than a submarine warfare simulator. It's a bit of a shame because I am a fan of the simulator genre.
I super appreciate this feedback and don't at all take it as overly negative.
I have gone back and forth on whether to describe how to use the tools or instead to explain goals. I get what you're saying and will give this more thought.
(And the fact remains that with this many tools, it's simply really challenging to explain it in a clear and elegant way on a small device.)
Once you "get it" and know how everything works, then I think it can work well...but for something this complex, the issue is definitely going to be onboarding.
For me, part of the fun is in figuring out the "why" behind the "what". I really enjoyed getting a rundown of which tools were available to me, and then I get to figure out on my own how best to use them.
The submarine don't look like a submarine.
I reloaded my torpedoes but it is taking so long and it just keeps on blinking.
very cool, i’m in
Is that comic sans or am I having a moment
It should be Patrick Hand, and Special Elite for typewriter stuff...but are you seeing Comic Sans, seriously?