spam/phishing/malicious calls do not come from individuals. How about they start with preventing caller ID spoofing/requiring proper caller ID?
the spam calls come from call farms that rotate numbers. they should be required to present a unified and verifiable caller ID
Phone systems can put whatever they want in caller ID, there should be verifiable reverse lookup to a valid registered number along with fines for violators
requiring an individuals ID to get a phone number is going to make the spam/phishing/malicious problem WORSE along with the enormous risks of that database being exposed/abused
This is part of the same trend which requires ID to use social media, view adult content, or log into their own computer. The goal is to give government control of computers and communications.
Yep. Google an offense contractor for the department of war is now going to require phone attestation to access the internet. This goes right in line with the actual desires here. Technofacism is going to hit fast. Especially seeing as how many people here and in other communities have their head in the sand.
China has had the requirement to "bind" online accounts to ID for almost a decade. No one complained because they already verified with Weixin (WeChat) so they just linked their accounts to it.
America, all the crumbling industries and oligarchs of Russia, all the domestic surveillance of China, none of the healthcare of other developed countries, and more guns then any other nation.
The difference between say a think tank and an advocacy organization like "reclaimthenet.org" is a think tank hopefully feels obligated to think about, and pitch, a solution to the identified problem (spam calls).
Obviously reclaimthenet.org can post whatever they want on their site.
I'm curious about requiring all phone calls except to emergency services to cost a tenth of a cent. Or some amount that permits desired robocalling (prescription drug reminders for those not on the 'net) and excises spam calls.
You know the FCC is going to do this and still be completely unable to stop spam calls. You're going to get all of the drawbacks and none of the benefits.
I can understand the motivation. I've had the same number since the 90's and never once got a spam call until I was in the hospital last year and since then I've been getting 2-3 a day every day. They've probably left at least a thousand voice mails for a great loan opportunity, all from different numbers and different loan amounts.
Get yourself locked up in the slammer for a night while carrying a fresh burner; observe them writing down your IMEI and IMSI; see if that makes you start getting robocalls.
Back when all phones were land lines were you able to get service connected without showing some identity? I honestly don't remember, and I had land lines at several addresses. I would assume they would want to ID the account owner in case they later had to collect, but they at least had the name you gave them, probably SSN or drivers license number too.
Instead of forcing people and businesses to do all the work, how about the government does all the work and manages the data, and lets people opt-in to the system.
This is the way it works in Australia. I wasn't a huge fan of having to prove who I am and have my identity related to be able to txt and make phone calls or use mobile internet when I moved here.
every thing happening right now in privacy space including OS level ID verification, then websites requiring ID and now this is strangely alarming
right to privacy and speech will soon be very limited in aspects only relating and possible offline and very soon there will be nothing one can do about that
Does anyone imagine the government doesn’t already know who owns every phone number?
Also, couldn’t this system be optional, numbers that are ID-verified are somehow flagged so (assuming I choose) when one calls my phone knows to let it through and when an unverified number calls it doesn’t ring?
They know through indirect means. So they buy all the cellphone data specifically the gps location data in the us and funnel it through huge servers. So they can determine patterns, addresses, etc.
This makes that easier and doesn't risk any of the legality if their should be illegal data sources or other likely illegal activities.
Will this finally get Signal to stop demanding phone numbers to register accounts?
Lots of services you'd rather have an anonymous account with (Google, Meta, Discord) are partially/fully mandating phone numbers as a spam mitigation strategy. Also this paves the way to internet connections/mobile internet requiring ID
Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society.
I am very glad to see this change, because phone-based Fraud is a plague on the Elderly and other vulnerable members of society. And an incredible annoyance even to a security conscious professional.
The guard against intrusive and oppressive government is the Bill of Rights, not some easy ability to get a phone number anonymously.
Kids can get government IDs. In my state, it's free for anyone under the age of 17. It's also free for anyone who can provide adequate proof they can't afford the $15.
Already the case in most EU countries. I don't know if there is a commensurate robocaller problem.
Come to think of it, when I get an EU SIM, it does start getting robocalls... as soon as I give the number to some Big Legitimate Business that is supposed to be observing GDPR and whatnot.
Come to think of it, from what I know about this "mass surveillance" bullshit, robocallers being an inside job makes perfect sense.
My state has laws specifically about this which help DV victims replace stolen wallets, birth certificates, IDs, and so on.
Whether we like it or not, ID is required to function in society these days. The public has, in general, decided they don't like the alternatives, and I would count myself among those who would prefer to have working phone service again without endless junk calls versus the hypothetical ability to go get a phone without ID.
> I would count myself among those who would prefer to have working phone service again without endless junk calls
False choice. It's quite possible that this will not substantially reduce much less eliminate the junk calls.
It will substantially reduce my ability to obtain an anonymized number that no one knows about and has any reason to junk call. I don't get any junk calls on my anonymous numbers, if if I did, I'd toss that number and get another and the junk could not follow it unless whomever I was using the number with was the source of the leak and then I'd stop doing business with them in the future.
Past privacy violations are what are driving the scam calls, making their be a mandatory loss of privacy at the moment you get the number will not help.
spam/phishing/malicious calls do not come from individuals. How about they start with preventing caller ID spoofing/requiring proper caller ID?
the spam calls come from call farms that rotate numbers. they should be required to present a unified and verifiable caller ID
Phone systems can put whatever they want in caller ID, there should be verifiable reverse lookup to a valid registered number along with fines for violators
requiring an individuals ID to get a phone number is going to make the spam/phishing/malicious problem WORSE along with the enormous risks of that database being exposed/abused
This is part of the same trend which requires ID to use social media, view adult content, or log into their own computer. The goal is to give government control of computers and communications.
Yep. Google an offense contractor for the department of war is now going to require phone attestation to access the internet. This goes right in line with the actual desires here. Technofacism is going to hit fast. Especially seeing as how many people here and in other communities have their head in the sand.
China has had the requirement to "bind" online accounts to ID for almost a decade. No one complained because they already verified with Weixin (WeChat) so they just linked their accounts to it.
America, all the crumbling industries and oligarchs of Russia, all the domestic surveillance of China, none of the healthcare of other developed countries, and more guns then any other nation.
The difference between say a think tank and an advocacy organization like "reclaimthenet.org" is a think tank hopefully feels obligated to think about, and pitch, a solution to the identified problem (spam calls).
Obviously reclaimthenet.org can post whatever they want on their site.
I'm curious about requiring all phone calls except to emergency services to cost a tenth of a cent. Or some amount that permits desired robocalling (prescription drug reminders for those not on the 'net) and excises spam calls.
You know the FCC is going to do this and still be completely unable to stop spam calls. You're going to get all of the drawbacks and none of the benefits.
I can understand the motivation. I've had the same number since the 90's and never once got a spam call until I was in the hospital last year and since then I've been getting 2-3 a day every day. They've probably left at least a thousand voice mails for a great loan opportunity, all from different numbers and different loan amounts.
Probably a coincidence. I didn't get any spam calls either, until I did.
>until I was in the hospital last year
So much for HIPAA huh?
Phone numbers aren't protected health information.
Is the fact that I was in the hospital protected health information? If not, why not?
Science opportunity! >:]
Get yourself locked up in the slammer for a night while carrying a fresh burner; observe them writing down your IMEI and IMSI; see if that makes you start getting robocalls.
Back when all phones were land lines were you able to get service connected without showing some identity? I honestly don't remember, and I had land lines at several addresses. I would assume they would want to ID the account owner in case they later had to collect, but they at least had the name you gave them, probably SSN or drivers license number too.
Since numbers can be spoofed what problem is this actually solving? None?
Instead of forcing people and businesses to do all the work, how about the government does all the work and manages the data, and lets people opt-in to the system.
you trust the government to manage the data?
Not this administration. That said sam altman, Elon musk, mark Zuckerberg, and Alex karp, etc are this administration. So either way we are boned.
This is the way it works in Australia. I wasn't a huge fan of having to prove who I am and have my identity related to be able to txt and make phone calls or use mobile internet when I moved here.
every thing happening right now in privacy space including OS level ID verification, then websites requiring ID and now this is strangely alarming
right to privacy and speech will soon be very limited in aspects only relating and possible offline and very soon there will be nothing one can do about that
Does anyone imagine the government doesn’t already know who owns every phone number?
Also, couldn’t this system be optional, numbers that are ID-verified are somehow flagged so (assuming I choose) when one calls my phone knows to let it through and when an unverified number calls it doesn’t ring?
They know through indirect means. So they buy all the cellphone data specifically the gps location data in the us and funnel it through huge servers. So they can determine patterns, addresses, etc.
This makes that easier and doesn't risk any of the legality if their should be illegal data sources or other likely illegal activities.
Tldr: This is a way to defeat vpns.
As always, this will only affect those who either lack the knowledge or the resources to work around it. The innocent people always take the fall.
Will this finally get Signal to stop demanding phone numbers to register accounts?
Lots of services you'd rather have an anonymous account with (Google, Meta, Discord) are partially/fully mandating phone numbers as a spam mitigation strategy. Also this paves the way to internet connections/mobile internet requiring ID
So, we all go back to land lines for privacy?
Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society.
I am very glad to see this change, because phone-based Fraud is a plague on the Elderly and other vulnerable members of society. And an incredible annoyance even to a security conscious professional.
The guard against intrusive and oppressive government is the Bill of Rights, not some easy ability to get a phone number anonymously.
> Privacy has to be one goal among many in a reasonable society.
I have to say, coming from "Lonestar1440" that implies quite the rebrand for Texas:
Texas: Just One Star Among Fifty Equals.
Edit: clarifications
Okay, but you're telling me kids that don't have a government ID can't have phones now, right?
Kids can get government IDs. In my state, it's free for anyone under the age of 17. It's also free for anyone who can provide adequate proof they can't afford the $15.
And they pay for the time off work, the daycare required, the gas bill...
No fee is not equivalent to free.
You're missing a whole lot of points here.
1) They aren't legal adults.
2) Protecting the Boomers again, who had it better than their parents and their children. Why protect the future when we can coddle the past instead.
3) Absurdly, most of HN will die on the "government ID required to vote" hill, but this is just fine now...
Already the case in most EU countries. I don't know if there is a commensurate robocaller problem.
Come to think of it, when I get an EU SIM, it does start getting robocalls... as soon as I give the number to some Big Legitimate Business that is supposed to be observing GDPR and whatnot.
Come to think of it, from what I know about this "mass surveillance" bullshit, robocallers being an inside job makes perfect sense.
Domestic abusers rejoice. Just hide the victim's ID and they won't get a phone.
My state has laws specifically about this which help DV victims replace stolen wallets, birth certificates, IDs, and so on.
Whether we like it or not, ID is required to function in society these days. The public has, in general, decided they don't like the alternatives, and I would count myself among those who would prefer to have working phone service again without endless junk calls versus the hypothetical ability to go get a phone without ID.
> I would count myself among those who would prefer to have working phone service again without endless junk calls
False choice. It's quite possible that this will not substantially reduce much less eliminate the junk calls.
It will substantially reduce my ability to obtain an anonymized number that no one knows about and has any reason to junk call. I don't get any junk calls on my anonymous numbers, if if I did, I'd toss that number and get another and the junk could not follow it unless whomever I was using the number with was the source of the leak and then I'd stop doing business with them in the future.
Past privacy violations are what are driving the scam calls, making their be a mandatory loss of privacy at the moment you get the number will not help.