> Notably, the rollout will be handled by an “intelligent” update system that leverages machine learning to determine when a device is ready to receive the update.
> Curiously, there seems to be a lack of transparency around how Microsoft’s machine learning system decides when a device is ready to receive the automatic update.
The open secret is that the LLM has been prompted to make the call and no human in Microsoft is able to interrogate why the agentic AI is pushing updates to some machines and not to others.
After all the stupid drama in the last few years, we loaded Linux Mint Mate on all my parents computers. My mom can't really tell the difference and my dad likes it.
If Microsoft is losing 65 year olds, they've got a problem.
Microsoft lost my 80yr old aunt and my two under teenager kids. My last hold-out at home is my son's laptop, which he needed Windows for a proctered exam (now completed). He's excited to soon be on the same OS as his other family members.
Project Ozone 3, Enigmatica 2 Expert, Nomifactory, GregTech New Horizons, Sky Factory 4, and SevTech Ages all run fine under GNU/Linux, is there some modpack that doesn't work?
I did it. It’s great, I surprisingly like Linux more than both macOS and Windows. That wasn’t the case the last time I tried it.
Still, I don’t think this issue in particular is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If you’re using Windows 11 and connected to the internet there’s really not much of a good reason to not want the latest updates in my mind, especially as the OS really has matured nicely overall in my opinion through those updates. The early days were rough.
It would just be nice if Microsoft did a better job separating feature updates from required security updates and being consistent about policy overall.
The way Apple does it seems ideal. They have a yearly release and you are never forced to update. The previous two versions continue to get critical security patches. Their hardware loses OS support at a predictable rate.
If you never update you’re really on your own.
Apple has on rare occasions pushed ultra critical mandatory updates IIRC, like the one to resolve that Catalina root bug. But that’s rare, and it’s not a major release.
Even more critically, Apple doesn’t continually change their mind and reorganize how it works like Microsoft seems to do. Microsoft decided to do biannual releases then figured out that they can’t go that fast but still call every release “H2” but then these are separate from security patches but now we are forced to update anyway.
Just decide on something that everyone is okay with and stick to it.
Microsoft is driving more and more people away to Linux or macOS (as evidenced by other comments here). I thought they had recently announced that they would be trying to rebuild trust in their users, but evidently the Windows Update team didn't get the memo.
Ain't that the truth. My older desktop's DHCP and WLAN services no longer work. So either I reinstall Windows 10 or see if I can get what I need it to do on Windows
Other than taking longer to install, this doesn't sound materially worse than forcing any other Windows update on the same set of users (those whose update settings aren't controlled by Group Policy, presumably).
In particular, this change doesn't apply to Windows 10.
Do nontechnical users intentionally run older, unsupported builds of Windows 11 in the first place, and if so, why?
They are pushing features that nobody is asking for and is not making life feel any better (bricking ssd, and ai reading you credit card details), and now here they are telling you, that they will force an update you may not be choosing to do, and do it with AI (which imo, isn't necessary for this process. Last I checked, MS will update when it notices idle time, no?)
Yes, there is a harmful meme in the world of IT/power users/devs/old people, that says you should never install updates. They are sort of right in that the updates often reduce system performance and introduce bugs, but they also patch bugs and, more importantly, security issues. A lot of avoidable hacking incidents happen because of unpatched systems.
I’ve been noticing (because of user bug reports) that the security policies are now AI driven. If you haven’t use a feature in x-days or y-reboots or other heuristic, it becomes an application crash the next time an application tries to use that OS feature (such as loading dlls or usb drivers)
This has been said many times over years and even decades, but here goes again: Microsoft doesn't care about users, open source, nothing except their own pocketbooks.
> Notably, the rollout will be handled by an “intelligent” update system that leverages machine learning to determine when a device is ready to receive the update.
> Curiously, there seems to be a lack of transparency around how Microsoft’s machine learning system decides when a device is ready to receive the automatic update.
The open secret is that the LLM has been prompted to make the call and no human in Microsoft is able to interrogate why the agentic AI is pushing updates to some machines and not to others.
After all the stupid drama in the last few years, we loaded Linux Mint Mate on all my parents computers. My mom can't really tell the difference and my dad likes it.
If Microsoft is losing 65 year olds, they've got a problem.
Microsoft lost my 80yr old aunt and my two under teenager kids. My last hold-out at home is my son's laptop, which he needed Windows for a proctered exam (now completed). He's excited to soon be on the same OS as his other family members.
The only thing keeping me from switching my kids to linux is minecraft.
Project Ozone 3, Enigmatica 2 Expert, Nomifactory, GregTech New Horizons, Sky Factory 4, and SevTech Ages all run fine under GNU/Linux, is there some modpack that doesn't work?
Presumably it's because of Bedrock. Which is the inferior game, yes, but it's the cross-platform one.
The move to Linux is looking more and more appealing. These decisions are killing Microsoft by a thousand cuts.
I did it. It’s great, I surprisingly like Linux more than both macOS and Windows. That wasn’t the case the last time I tried it.
Still, I don’t think this issue in particular is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If you’re using Windows 11 and connected to the internet there’s really not much of a good reason to not want the latest updates in my mind, especially as the OS really has matured nicely overall in my opinion through those updates. The early days were rough.
It would just be nice if Microsoft did a better job separating feature updates from required security updates and being consistent about policy overall.
The way Apple does it seems ideal. They have a yearly release and you are never forced to update. The previous two versions continue to get critical security patches. Their hardware loses OS support at a predictable rate.
If you never update you’re really on your own.
Apple has on rare occasions pushed ultra critical mandatory updates IIRC, like the one to resolve that Catalina root bug. But that’s rare, and it’s not a major release.
Even more critically, Apple doesn’t continually change their mind and reorganize how it works like Microsoft seems to do. Microsoft decided to do biannual releases then figured out that they can’t go that fast but still call every release “H2” but then these are separate from security patches but now we are forced to update anyway.
Just decide on something that everyone is okay with and stick to it.
Jokes on them I am still running Windows 10 and not planning to move my gaming PC to Windows 11 (hardware not supported).
My hardware is supported and I'm sticking with 10 until the last ATM finally updates
Well I also force upgraded, to Linux
Microsoft is driving more and more people away to Linux or macOS (as evidenced by other comments here). I thought they had recently announced that they would be trying to rebuild trust in their users, but evidently the Windows Update team didn't get the memo.
I'm still on 23H2, windows update fails every time I try. This summer I'm switching to Linux.
You need to repair your Windows installation first, sometimes after enough updates it just corrupts itself.
Ain't that the truth. My older desktop's DHCP and WLAN services no longer work. So either I reinstall Windows 10 or see if I can get what I need it to do on Windows
Not sure if you're referring here to Windows or Microsoft as a company. Could fit either /S
Something that might work is downloading the current ISO, then mount it and run the setup
Other than taking longer to install, this doesn't sound materially worse than forcing any other Windows update on the same set of users (those whose update settings aren't controlled by Group Policy, presumably).
In particular, this change doesn't apply to Windows 10.
Do nontechnical users intentionally run older, unsupported builds of Windows 11 in the first place, and if so, why?
It will probably be handled by Windows Upgrade Copilot.
I'm far from a MS apologist, but this is upgrading a soon-to-be-unsupported version of Windows 11 to the current version
They are pushing features that nobody is asking for and is not making life feel any better (bricking ssd, and ai reading you credit card details), and now here they are telling you, that they will force an update you may not be choosing to do, and do it with AI (which imo, isn't necessary for this process. Last I checked, MS will update when it notices idle time, no?)
Forcing it does seem a little excessive
Still, I'm confused how a machine on H24 hasn't already gone to 25 via regular updates
Are there a bunch of folks who've been hitting 'don't upgrade now' since late last year?
Yes, there is a harmful meme in the world of IT/power users/devs/old people, that says you should never install updates. They are sort of right in that the updates often reduce system performance and introduce bugs, but they also patch bugs and, more importantly, security issues. A lot of avoidable hacking incidents happen because of unpatched systems.
It seems like WUB (windows update blocker) will still prevent an update?
You can also block windows update in firewall, I like Fort.
so i instead get to run someone else's closed source .exe as admin on my system - out of the frying pan and into the fire.
This insanely clickbait title implies Win10 systems will be upgraded. That is not true whatsoever.
Many subreddits ban sites for having clickbaity nonsense and it's high time HN did the same.
Did it change? It's currently
>Microsoft to force updates to Windows 11 25H2 for PCs with older Windows 11 OS versions
I'm showing:
> Microsoft to force updates to Windows 11 25H2 for PCs with older OS versions
Makes me think Windows 10 computers are going to be upgraded whether or not the hardware supports it.
OP here. My submission included the "older Windows 11" clause. I did not change it
Microsoft is employing a machine learning algorithm to decide when a particular device should receive a forced update.
What? How could that possibly be beneficial for anyone?
I’ve been noticing (because of user bug reports) that the security policies are now AI driven. If you haven’t use a feature in x-days or y-reboots or other heuristic, it becomes an application crash the next time an application tries to use that OS feature (such as loading dlls or usb drivers)
The mistake you've made is thinking that they care about anyone other than themselves. Microslop is a rather fitting nickname.
Beneficial during the lawsuit probably
This has been said many times over years and even decades, but here goes again: Microsoft doesn't care about users, open source, nothing except their own pocketbooks.
Is there a billion dollar company that does?
Some at least recognize that being pro-consumer is better long term.
The only one I can think of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonia,_Inc.
I know the link is weird, wiki seem to have an issue with their name.
I think that's because there is a period at the end
Here is the link with the comma and the period html encoded
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonia%2C_Inc%2E
Because it's all about controlling the real products, the users, with force. Technofeudal overlords DGAF.