Wild that we're still learning new things about ancient architecture! I'd think with all the modern tech at our disposal we'd have full, high res scans of the inside by now.
I remember this being talked about >20 years ago when the idea came up and they had to get clearance from the Egyptian gov which were not keen on the idea. If this is indeed the same "hidden passage" ... Gee .. 20 years to get clearance.
The Egyptian government is hiding some uncomfortable truths about the pyramids. They are looking to protect a generation of people who believe in the current narrative about the pyramids before they allow the truth to come out.
This seems a pretty big claim! What truths do people believe that are wrong, and what do you believe the truth to be? And why would they protect a generation and from what and why? And will they not protect the generation who are coming up now, still learning the false truth because the real truth hasn’t been revealed yet?
> What truths do people believe that are wrong, and what do you believe the truth to be?
I'm not certain.
> And why would they protect a generation and from what and why?
It's very common to delay information to minimize its impact. I suppose for "national security." My intuition is that it is a matter of country pride, and cultural "ownership" over a world wonder.
> And will they not protect the generation who are coming up now, still learning the false truth because the real truth hasn’t been revealed yet?
No, that's how delaying information works. They'll all be dead by the time it comes out anyway.
An alternative alternative view is that the pyramids are >4000 years old and 20 years is nothing in that context, so waiting a few years for technology to improve to the extent that they can be confident that the archeologists can do an investigation in a less invasive way that doesn't cause damage is time well spent.
Fibre-optic endoscopes have been around since the mid 1970s. So technology that is much older than the muon scanning techniques that the ScanPyramids project used to discover the North Face Corridor. The real problem, I think, was that Hawass went on record to reject the ScanPyramids results for reasons known only to Zahi Hawass, despite widespread scientific acceptance of the ScanPyramids papers.
The other alternate view is that it's run by an incompetent narcissist (Zahi Hawass, head of the Egyptian Antiquities Department that controls who can do what in the pyramids). Hawass was not particularly supportive of the original ScanPyramids Project results.
'On November 2, 2017, the Egyptologist Zahi Hawass told the New York Times: "They found nothing...This paper offers nothing to Egyptology. Zero."' -- wikipedia.
The result from the ScanPyramids Project that got the most coverage was a strong suggestion that there is a major void (the ScanPyramids Big Void) above the Grand Gallery leading to the King's Chamber (which has not yet been confirmed). They also found weaker evidence that suggested there was a tunnel on the north face behind the chevron blocks. The existence of the ScanPyramids North Face Corridor (referred to in the literature as the SP-NFC) was confirmed in 2023, by inserting an endoscope into a crack between two of the chevron blocks. Zahi Hawass did his best to take credit for the discovery. Nobody took him seriously.
That underground city near Derinkuyu in Turkey is suppose to have 18 levels, the first 8 are open to the public, the other 10 have been waiting for permission since 1963.
Different Nature paper from last year. The article is regurgitating stuff that happened in 2023, with a 2026 byline date.
Your paper, on the other hand, seems to be comparing three different scanning methods (radar, ultrasound, and resistivity) for measuring the thickness of the chevron block in front of the North Face Corridor. So not related.
It's pretty much just cosmic rays. I suppose you can sort of create them by using an accelerator to generate a beam of the appropriate particles that'll hit a target or decay and become a beam of muons outside the accelerator but that's not really all that practical. Incidentally, this is how neutrino beams are generated.
“Muon tomography or muography is a technique that uses cosmic ray muons to generate two or three-dimensional images of volumes using information contained in the Coulomb scattering of the muons.
[…]
Since 2010s researchers are also exploring and attempting to use artificially generated muons—created by conventional accelerators or laser-plasma systems—for muon tomography.”
I may overlook something, but skimming the references, I get the impression the latter still is an idea. References are about simulating the machinery, discussing requirements of hypothetical machines, etc.
Muons are not stable, thus you cannot tear them off matter as you'd do with electrons. And they have a mass of 105 MeV each, which means you need a nice particle accelerator to create a few of them.
Furthermore, if you want (most of) them to fly in a particular direction, you need to scale that accelerator up.
Just when you think Egyptology can't get more interesting, it does. No wonder "just a quick search about the Pyramids" turns into a lifelong obsession for many.
What's exciting about this is the opportunity to examine an untouched area of history. Sadly, over hundreds of years, much of the artifacts from these sites were looted. Hopefully we've learned our lessons at this point and can preserve them this round.
Although from the photos of the space, it looks to be empty, so no amazing artifacts to be discovered. I would guess that any ancient unknown artifacts that are discovered in the next century will come from undersea archaeology with all the limitations that exist for finding things that have been underwater for thousands of years.
"Their lives seem to have revolved mostly around musical concerts—not so much listening to them, as recording the audio from them like trophies to share for prestige among their peers. Mostly some kind of status-jockeying activity, as the art—such as it was, and if you've heard some of these recordings you know what I mean—seems to have been incidental. It's unclear whether anyone even listened to these recordings, but one acquainted with the material must suppose: no, not often. We speculate these concerts must have been difficult or trying to attend (again, one must agree that they were surely trying...) and so obtaining a recording of them as proof of one's attendance, and endurance of the entire trial, took on an almost hunting-trophy-like role in society.
Most of their highly-prized leisure entertainment seems to have been British and Eastern European television, plus something called 'Battletoads'."
They'll find whatever they need to find (or not find) just as we do. Its simply an impossible exercise to go back in time, carrying all of our assumptions about modern life and what we have been taught about the 'Ancient world'.
Wild that we're still learning new things about ancient architecture! I'd think with all the modern tech at our disposal we'd have full, high res scans of the inside by now.
I remember this being talked about >20 years ago when the idea came up and they had to get clearance from the Egyptian gov which were not keen on the idea. If this is indeed the same "hidden passage" ... Gee .. 20 years to get clearance.
Did a quick search with perplexity, and it seems this is the other shaft from the 90s: https://www.crystalinks.com/GantenbrinksDoor.html .
The Egyptian government is hiding some uncomfortable truths about the pyramids. They are looking to protect a generation of people who believe in the current narrative about the pyramids before they allow the truth to come out.
This seems a pretty big claim! What truths do people believe that are wrong, and what do you believe the truth to be? And why would they protect a generation and from what and why? And will they not protect the generation who are coming up now, still learning the false truth because the real truth hasn’t been revealed yet?
> What truths do people believe that are wrong, and what do you believe the truth to be?
I'm not certain.
> And why would they protect a generation and from what and why?
It's very common to delay information to minimize its impact. I suppose for "national security." My intuition is that it is a matter of country pride, and cultural "ownership" over a world wonder.
> And will they not protect the generation who are coming up now, still learning the false truth because the real truth hasn’t been revealed yet?
No, that's how delaying information works. They'll all be dead by the time it comes out anyway.
Are we talking chappa'ai and Goa'uld, or do you have something more down to Earth in mind here with your conspiratorial hinting?
All you have to do is look at how the Egyptian government handles the site to draw this conclusion.
I don't care to comment on what they may be hiding.
Some people think the Egyptian government aims to control archeology so it doesn't find things conflicting with their view of history.
The alternate view is that it's mostly just hopelessly bureaucratic.
An alternative alternative view is that the pyramids are >4000 years old and 20 years is nothing in that context, so waiting a few years for technology to improve to the extent that they can be confident that the archeologists can do an investigation in a less invasive way that doesn't cause damage is time well spent.
Fibre-optic endoscopes have been around since the mid 1970s. So technology that is much older than the muon scanning techniques that the ScanPyramids project used to discover the North Face Corridor. The real problem, I think, was that Hawass went on record to reject the ScanPyramids results for reasons known only to Zahi Hawass, despite widespread scientific acceptance of the ScanPyramids papers.
The other alternate view is that it's run by an incompetent narcissist (Zahi Hawass, head of the Egyptian Antiquities Department that controls who can do what in the pyramids). Hawass was not particularly supportive of the original ScanPyramids Project results.
'On November 2, 2017, the Egyptologist Zahi Hawass told the New York Times: "They found nothing...This paper offers nothing to Egyptology. Zero."' -- wikipedia.
The result from the ScanPyramids Project that got the most coverage was a strong suggestion that there is a major void (the ScanPyramids Big Void) above the Grand Gallery leading to the King's Chamber (which has not yet been confirmed). They also found weaker evidence that suggested there was a tunnel on the north face behind the chevron blocks. The existence of the ScanPyramids North Face Corridor (referred to in the literature as the SP-NFC) was confirmed in 2023, by inserting an endoscope into a crack between two of the chevron blocks. Zahi Hawass did his best to take credit for the discovery. Nobody took him seriously.
That underground city near Derinkuyu in Turkey is suppose to have 18 levels, the first 8 are open to the public, the other 10 have been waiting for permission since 1963.
Better article with pictures (2023): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64825526
Oh, an actual "modern engineering marvel". What a novelty, what a discovery!
The Nature paper from last year: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-91115-8
Different Nature paper from last year. The article is regurgitating stuff that happened in 2023, with a 2026 byline date.
Your paper, on the other hand, seems to be comparing three different scanning methods (radar, ultrasound, and resistivity) for measuring the thickness of the chevron block in front of the North Face Corridor. So not related.
Are we able to generate muons outside of a particle accelerator, or does all muography rely on cosmic rays?
It's pretty much just cosmic rays. I suppose you can sort of create them by using an accelerator to generate a beam of the appropriate particles that'll hit a target or decay and become a beam of muons outside the accelerator but that's not really all that practical. Incidentally, this is how neutrino beams are generated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon_tomography:
“Muon tomography or muography is a technique that uses cosmic ray muons to generate two or three-dimensional images of volumes using information contained in the Coulomb scattering of the muons.
[…]
Since 2010s researchers are also exploring and attempting to use artificially generated muons—created by conventional accelerators or laser-plasma systems—for muon tomography.”
I may overlook something, but skimming the references, I get the impression the latter still is an idea. References are about simulating the machinery, discussing requirements of hypothetical machines, etc.
Muons are not stable, thus you cannot tear them off matter as you'd do with electrons. And they have a mass of 105 MeV each, which means you need a nice particle accelerator to create a few of them.
Furthermore, if you want (most of) them to fly in a particular direction, you need to scale that accelerator up.
Just when you think Egyptology can't get more interesting, it does. No wonder "just a quick search about the Pyramids" turns into a lifelong obsession for many.
What's exciting about this is the opportunity to examine an untouched area of history. Sadly, over hundreds of years, much of the artifacts from these sites were looted. Hopefully we've learned our lessons at this point and can preserve them this round.
Although from the photos of the space, it looks to be empty, so no amazing artifacts to be discovered. I would guess that any ancient unknown artifacts that are discovered in the next century will come from undersea archaeology with all the limitations that exist for finding things that have been underwater for thousands of years.
> Hopefully we've learned ...
i think the recurrent problem across millenia is that "we" has varying definitions, with varying behaviors.
I sometimes wonder what digital historians will rediscover about our current era internet in 1000 years.
They're going to assume our entire society was built around /r/datahoarders (because that's all they'll ever find).
Would be fun to write a short story about it. I'm thinking a crossover between Motel of the Mysteries and Galaxy Quest and such.
"Their lives seem to have revolved mostly around musical concerts—not so much listening to them, as recording the audio from them like trophies to share for prestige among their peers. Mostly some kind of status-jockeying activity, as the art—such as it was, and if you've heard some of these recordings you know what I mean—seems to have been incidental. It's unclear whether anyone even listened to these recordings, but one acquainted with the material must suppose: no, not often. We speculate these concerts must have been difficult or trying to attend (again, one must agree that they were surely trying...) and so obtaining a recording of them as proof of one's attendance, and endurance of the entire trial, took on an almost hunting-trophy-like role in society.
Most of their highly-prized leisure entertainment seems to have been British and Eastern European television, plus something called 'Battletoads'."
We'd be exploring earth then like we are exploring mars now and someone akin to Elon would be making statements like "Occupy Earth".
They'll find whatever they need to find (or not find) just as we do. Its simply an impossible exercise to go back in time, carrying all of our assumptions about modern life and what we have been taught about the 'Ancient world'.
Who knows what the aliens left behind!
another clickbait title
room was revealed and photographed with endoscope in 2023, nothing new happened since
it's not even "passage" - just a room