I admire the de-Googled approach of GrapheneOS. As a lawyer, privacy concerns resonate with me too. I love the rebellious attitude of tech that presents an alternative choice in an overly duopolistic market.
That said, I wouldn't last 8.4 months like the author. Even though he admits to some Google app usage, I'm in too deep — I'd never be able to get out. But if I get the chance, I'd like to try it on a secondary phone. Those solid black icons are one reason. They look cool.
TBH What I wanted from the world is AOSP distribution. Built similarly to GrapheneOS in terms of distribution, ease of install. But I just don't feel I need all these privacy enhancements and stuff, I'm perfectly fine with ordinary system compiled from Google sources with proper update schedule. Also I don't want to see anything installed out of the box, except maybe single app to install AOSP apps, F-Droid, Play Store, just APK from the given URL. So basically almost empty mobile OS which user fully customizes, no predefined choices, no custom patches.
I know very little about lineageos. Their website contains very few docs, so I don't really understand what's this project is about. They don't mention Pixel 10, so I guess it's not supported.
GrapheneOS website in comparison contains a lot of things to read, so after a hour of thorough reading I had good impression what GrapheneOS is.
I’ve been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years now, and it’s been perfect for me. Contactless payments used to work fine, but then my bank switched to Google Wallet. Since then, I’ve just kept a physical card tucked behind my phone case so I can use it when needed.
Personally I would just love Apple to be forced by governments to open up their hardware by releasing complete documentation of their hardware and allowing to install another os or dual boot. iPhones hardware is really good and would love booting Linux on theses. And then force every services company to provide an API to their services so we have an alternative to their app. I guess Motorola partnering with GrapheneOS will not change anything in this space because contactless payments and some apps will not work and fundamentally because the sales will be way below mainstream brands like Apple/Samsung. Governments need to step up here.
so use a card? there is always something. breaking free is never going to be without ANY inconveniences, it's how they build their moat after all. okay so once those two works works, one goes to the next thing on the list; "I wish I could switch but I can't use gboard on it and the swiping is 0.5% better than the stock keyboard so it's unusable to me"
(you can use gboard, that was just an example - but it's always these small inconveniences, just like in the chrome vs firefox threads)
I think it's healthy for a population to not have as part of day-to-day life to pay with credit, effectively paying with money you might not actually have, going into debt. How many US citizens are crippled by credit card debt, and the interest on it?
You can pay with credit card as a convenience + fraud protection mechanism without ever paying interest by just paying your bill off every month.
When chip and pin was first rolled out, Europeans were shocked by the low security of swipe cards in the US. The reason that wasn’t an issue for Americans was (and still is) that credit cards have excellent fraud protections.
If someone steals my credit card, it is the bank’s problem, not mine.
The risk of paying by debit card on a regular basis is unfathomable to me, even with fancy tech to try to make it secure.
Wallet was one of the reasons I abandoned my well working lineageOS phone on a redmi note 10 as it was a cat and mouse game over month. I feel as long as a vendor does not support an os and Google is so hostile against modifications, it is not a good feeling that they can pull the rug at any time. I was multiple times in the situation when I wanted to pay with the phone and was in the end rejected. I think we need to take NFC wallets and esims away from phone/os vendors again. A seperate NFC enabled vendor independent trusted platform would be IMHO the way to go. Especially with ID wallets and universal bank wallets on the way in Europe. This that they cannot use security as a killer argument to keep us in their walled gardens. I know the solution is cards or a second phone, but affordance counts.
Contactless payments are often a problem, but adding a card for Uber (directly in the app) should work. I use it frequently, along with Grab, Bolt, Maxim, etc.
good writeup. I've been meaning to set this up for myself too. I keep uninstalling apps from my phone every other day because if I use something very little, I am afraid the app is collecting data from my usage in some way or the other.
I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to go back if I don't like it?
Similar to GrapheneOS, Google also has a web installer (linked from the above section). Just in case you didn't know - both installing GrapheneOS and recovering the stock OS will remove all data as well.
Yes, it's super simple to install GrapheneOS and to revert to the factory OS on Google Pixels. It is done from Chrome browser with phone connected via USB cable, no need to install anything. Of course when you'll switch, you'll lose all data on your phone, basically like factory reset (but esims survive I think).
I admire the de-Googled approach of GrapheneOS. As a lawyer, privacy concerns resonate with me too. I love the rebellious attitude of tech that presents an alternative choice in an overly duopolistic market.
That said, I wouldn't last 8.4 months like the author. Even though he admits to some Google app usage, I'm in too deep — I'd never be able to get out. But if I get the chance, I'd like to try it on a secondary phone. Those solid black icons are one reason. They look cool.
you can use mostly google appsand still benefit (e.g. unlike google android, play services aren't privileged and are sandboxed like any other app) https://grapheneos.org/features#sandboxed-google-play
also you can restrict some apps network permissions, for example i use the google camera app with the network disabled :p
TBH What I wanted from the world is AOSP distribution. Built similarly to GrapheneOS in terms of distribution, ease of install. But I just don't feel I need all these privacy enhancements and stuff, I'm perfectly fine with ordinary system compiled from Google sources with proper update schedule. Also I don't want to see anything installed out of the box, except maybe single app to install AOSP apps, F-Droid, Play Store, just APK from the given URL. So basically almost empty mobile OS which user fully customizes, no predefined choices, no custom patches.
tbh it sounds like you do want grapheneos :p
it's very minimal ootb and has a better update schedule than 95% of oems (alas)
you can install google play store & services from the app store, and pretty much everything will just work as you might imagine
So what is wrong with lineage in this case?
I know very little about lineageos. Their website contains very few docs, so I don't really understand what's this project is about. They don't mention Pixel 10, so I guess it's not supported.
GrapheneOS website in comparison contains a lot of things to read, so after a hour of thorough reading I had good impression what GrapheneOS is.
I’ve been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years now, and it’s been perfect for me. Contactless payments used to work fine, but then my bank switched to Google Wallet. Since then, I’ve just kept a physical card tucked behind my phone case so I can use it when needed.
Personally I would just love Apple to be forced by governments to open up their hardware by releasing complete documentation of their hardware and allowing to install another os or dual boot. iPhones hardware is really good and would love booting Linux on theses. And then force every services company to provide an API to their services so we have an alternative to their app. I guess Motorola partnering with GrapheneOS will not change anything in this space because contactless payments and some apps will not work and fundamentally because the sales will be way below mainstream brands like Apple/Samsung. Governments need to step up here.
I wish i could switch but bank apps and contactless payments keep me on stock pixel.
so use a card? there is always something. breaking free is never going to be without ANY inconveniences, it's how they build their moat after all. okay so once those two works works, one goes to the next thing on the list; "I wish I could switch but I can't use gboard on it and the swiping is 0.5% better than the stock keyboard so it's unusable to me"
(you can use gboard, that was just an example - but it's always these small inconveniences, just like in the chrome vs firefox threads)
Is this a European thing? Why not use a credit card?
I think it's healthy for a population to not have as part of day-to-day life to pay with credit, effectively paying with money you might not actually have, going into debt. How many US citizens are crippled by credit card debt, and the interest on it?
You can pay with credit card as a convenience + fraud protection mechanism without ever paying interest by just paying your bill off every month.
When chip and pin was first rolled out, Europeans were shocked by the low security of swipe cards in the US. The reason that wasn’t an issue for Americans was (and still is) that credit cards have excellent fraud protections.
If someone steals my credit card, it is the bank’s problem, not mine.
The risk of paying by debit card on a regular basis is unfathomable to me, even with fancy tech to try to make it secure.
You also get contactless payment on debit cards.
I’ve tried but: couldn’t get my card to work on wallet. Can’t verify.
Uber couldn’t verify payment so I couldn’t take a ride when needed.
Wallet was one of the reasons I abandoned my well working lineageOS phone on a redmi note 10 as it was a cat and mouse game over month. I feel as long as a vendor does not support an os and Google is so hostile against modifications, it is not a good feeling that they can pull the rug at any time. I was multiple times in the situation when I wanted to pay with the phone and was in the end rejected. I think we need to take NFC wallets and esims away from phone/os vendors again. A seperate NFC enabled vendor independent trusted platform would be IMHO the way to go. Especially with ID wallets and universal bank wallets on the way in Europe. This that they cannot use security as a killer argument to keep us in their walled gardens. I know the solution is cards or a second phone, but affordance counts.
Contactless payments are often a problem, but adding a card for Uber (directly in the app) should work. I use it frequently, along with Grab, Bolt, Maxim, etc.
Strange, i'm using Uber regularly with GrapheneOS.
It's googles fault that cards can't work in graphene.
Google needs to whitelist graphene basically to work in the wallet app.
On that note, given that graphene is focused around security and privacy, perhaps not givng your payment data to google is probably a good thing
good writeup. I've been meaning to set this up for myself too. I keep uninstalling apps from my phone every other day because if I use something very little, I am afraid the app is collecting data from my usage in some way or the other.
I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to go back if I don't like it?
Both install and reversion to stock OS are incredibly easy. Just back up first.
I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to go back if I don't like it?
Yeah, it is very easy, it's described here:
https://grapheneos.org/install/web#replacing-grapheneos-with...
Similar to GrapheneOS, Google also has a web installer (linked from the above section). Just in case you didn't know - both installing GrapheneOS and recovering the stock OS will remove all data as well.
Yes, it's super simple to install GrapheneOS and to revert to the factory OS on Google Pixels. It is done from Chrome browser with phone connected via USB cable, no need to install anything. Of course when you'll switch, you'll lose all data on your phone, basically like factory reset (but esims survive I think).
eSIMs survive the grapheneOS install…
Because when I had set it up, grapheneOS itself couldn’t install or set one up unless it was previously installed under the old OS.
So I had to set up my carrier and then install grapheneOS.
It can install eSIMs on its own now so this doesn’t matter other than confirming the eSIM carries over.
I’ve never reverted to stock android and I’m never looking back so idk if the eSIM survives the round trip.
2027 will be the year of the Graphene phone.