Unfortunately no one will care because it’s not their city, they are told to wait until midterms, the media is failing to report or cover much of what is going on and half the country thinks it’s ok because their party is behind it
I'm curious what gives you the impression that no one cares. Anyone non-white in the US, regardless of their immigration and citizenship status, can expect to be harassed in the near future, so I'm guessing they care. Maybe they're afraid enough to be silenced, but that doesn't mean they don't care.
Someone looking at HN front page could falsely get the impression that no one cares, but that's only because all ICE-related subjects are actively and relentlessly flagged. We never see them. You can have an idea of how much some of the HN crowd cares by visiting https://news.ycombinator.com/active more often.
I know this might be hard for some people to hear, but I want to share my thoughts to promote, in a small way, a common understanding of different perspectives.
My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
How do I know the guy isn’t trying to get donations for local groups? Is that an odd question to ask after the dominant lens through which we analyze action is “cui bono?”
How do I know that this didn’t come from some Russian intel group? Is that an odd question to ask after Russian interference is all over the media during our elections?
It’s the problem of our society today: we don’t share a common view of reality.
You can watch the hundreds of videos. You can judge the shared reporting about the number of federal agents deployed to MN coming from government and activist sources. You can listen to the administration's words about insurrection. You can read the front page reporting on the NYT, Fox News (both currently running front page stories). You can read the updates from the area's public schools.
There are no disagreements on the core facts: thousands of ICE agents are deployed to the Twin Cities and are aggressively arresting activists and immigrants, using chemical crowd deterrents, and presenting themselves in masks and military dress.
As an Austrian citizen I unfortunately have to tell you that the existence of masked agents in unmarked vehicles is very bad news. The last time we had this they were called Geheime Staatspolizei and we now have a memorial at the location of their head quarters in Vienna. I am not usually someone trying to manifest Godwins law but this is straight out of the facist playbook. Another super worrying fact for me as a European is that the late Dick Cheney was so worried about American democracy and he always looked like Darth Vader to me from across the pond. Suddenly we are on one side, didn’t have that on my bingo card.
Hi. I am the person who wrote the piece. I am not a bot, not Russian intel. YES I want money to go to organizations serving terrified, vulnerable people who are being hunted like dogs primarily because they LOOK like immigrants or other "undesirables."
People need help in MPLS, right now. Be skeptical of what you hear online ... definitely. But there is a limit. At some point you must accept that there is a major crisis, that people are in acute need, and that not helping is complicity.
Thanks for writing it, and thanks for stopping by. Perhaps I'm naive, but I wasn't worried at all that the article might be a Russian fake. Instead, my worry is that it felt like propaganda. Genuine heartfelt propaganda, probably from someone on the ground in Minneapolis, but throughout the piece I felt that you were likely leaving out information so as to create a more compelling call to action.
I don't know for sure that this is true, but I feel like this is a big hurdle that you'll have to overcome if you want to convince skeptical people like me who actually do care. Saying "I will not provide names, sources, etc." might feel necessary, but it makes it harder to convince people. I'm left feeling that there is definitely more to the story than you are telling.
Starting with your first example, "two teachers parked in front of the school were violently extracted from their cars and abducted by ICE officers". I'm not certain, but I'd probably be willing to bet this isn't the full story. Were they "parked in front" because they were at their jobs teaching, or were they attempting to prevent the ICE officers from doing something? Were they participating in a protest or just passing by?
I don't know--and it doesn't mean that what happened is right or proper--but I don't trust you to tell me if you think it might hurt the case you are trying to make. The result is that I feel like I need to at least partially discount the rest of what you have to say. How do we get beyond this?
You can donate to churches that are organizing to help bring food and supplies to people too afraid to leave their homes. It doesn’t have to be a political group.
> My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
Same thought I had. I mean, it sounds pretty bad but it's also making no attempt at all to report an unbiased view. I'd like to hear from officials. What are their goals, and why are they doing it this way? I don't think the majority of Trump voters wanted this kind of harm and chaos.
I fully expect this article to drop off the front page due to flagging in 3…2…1… like every other US politics story that gets posted on this site.
It’s for sure one of the biggest blind spots of this community, which should come as no surprise but is still a shame as it would be nice to have the high level of discourse we can expect from other topics applied to this period that could easily be, for many of us, the most significant geopolitical event of our lifetimes.
I’m curious if that’s a topic the mods have any thoughts on.
It used to be that tech workers were utopian, but now a good half of them, including on this site, are plain fascists. This site is not a utopian dream.
ICE is an extremely unprofessional agency and has no business existing at all in its current form. Abductions of citizens by ICE is real and it crosses a line.
It’s bit ironic that big tech invests so much in politics and engineers act like it’s beneath them. All technological progress tends to be political with its policy winds
The silence from tech companies says a million. There's a ton of huge companies and tech leaders with offices and businesses in Minneapolis and not one of them has had the spine to say anything about the occupation of their city or the people that have been unable to show up for work.
I think increasingly tech workers are starting to understand the size of the issue. You can see the sentiment shifting in previous threads here and even when stories like this are flagged, they still float to the top of /active. That said, it's also obvious that there's a certain group of folks that immediately flag these stories the moment they pop up.
A site that explicitly bans political content gets flooded with political content from a single extremist view, and the cultists still cry over censorship
As a non-American, I wonder how effective these measures are. Way too often I hear that "ICE abducted ... an American citizen". Are these individual cases amplified by the media to attack federal government's reputation or are these a significant percentage of all arrests? In which case, why is ICE doing it, they have absolutely no way of turning such arrests into a positive for themselves? How easy is it for an American or a legal alien to produce documentation proving their legal status - can it be that the fact(?) that many legal residents don't possess the necessary documentation at all times leads to the majority of such arrests/detentions/"abductions".
I know that many here will question ICE's mandate to act even against immigrants who don't have their paperwork in order, but this is another question.
Why would any of this be effective? They drastically reduced the duration of training ICE agents and drastically increased numbers. You should assume they are all incompetent.
This is just the standard precision/ recall tradeoff with recall being prioritised at the extreme (which is usually the wrong way to go for legal field).
A standard situation of 1% positive rate and even if your diagnosis method having 90% accuracy (for both sensitivity and specificity), more than 90% of the positive detection would be false positive.
It's rebounding on them, support for ICE is now negative
They're going after the weak and easy targets and dont care about citizenship as Miller has set them daily targets
My prediction is that the federal policing will ramp up considerably in blue states, which in turn will cause more clashes. Sooner or later POTUS will invoke insurrection act.
In any case, either he'll try to cancel midterm elections altogether, or he'll have ICE and National Guard roaming and harassing voters when that time comes around. Strategically in very blue or purple areas.
If that works for the midterms, no doubt we'll see more of the same for the presidential election.
My experience is quite a bit different than what the author is citing. I live just outside of Minneapolis, and have a bunch of friends who live in the city. I have never heard anyone express concern about what ICE is doing. The biggest worries are around commute disruptions due to protesters. It might be because this is a self-selected circle of white collar types, but I can say the report in this story is not universal.
Trump is forcing this to be a Game of Thrones "you win or you die" situation: there is no way out of this with a 60:40 solution, the only possible outcome is complete victory for one side, utter defeat for the other.
I disagree. Notable and impacting politics are often here and foster interesting discussions.
Everything is political, and nowadays everything has relation to tech. ICE is being supported by Palantir and many defense tech companies and that technology impacts and perfects the terror and abuse by ICE in Minneapolis.
It's important for us to talk about this, especially when it is uncomfortable.
Unfortunately no one will care because it’s not their city, they are told to wait until midterms, the media is failing to report or cover much of what is going on and half the country thinks it’s ok because their party is behind it
I'm curious what gives you the impression that no one cares. Anyone non-white in the US, regardless of their immigration and citizenship status, can expect to be harassed in the near future, so I'm guessing they care. Maybe they're afraid enough to be silenced, but that doesn't mean they don't care.
Someone looking at HN front page could falsely get the impression that no one cares, but that's only because all ICE-related subjects are actively and relentlessly flagged. We never see them. You can have an idea of how much some of the HN crowd cares by visiting https://news.ycombinator.com/active more often.
I know this might be hard for some people to hear, but I want to share my thoughts to promote, in a small way, a common understanding of different perspectives.
My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
How do I know the guy isn’t trying to get donations for local groups? Is that an odd question to ask after the dominant lens through which we analyze action is “cui bono?”
How do I know that this didn’t come from some Russian intel group? Is that an odd question to ask after Russian interference is all over the media during our elections?
It’s the problem of our society today: we don’t share a common view of reality.
You can watch the hundreds of videos. You can judge the shared reporting about the number of federal agents deployed to MN coming from government and activist sources. You can listen to the administration's words about insurrection. You can read the front page reporting on the NYT, Fox News (both currently running front page stories). You can read the updates from the area's public schools.
There are no disagreements on the core facts: thousands of ICE agents are deployed to the Twin Cities and are aggressively arresting activists and immigrants, using chemical crowd deterrents, and presenting themselves in masks and military dress.
As an Austrian citizen I unfortunately have to tell you that the existence of masked agents in unmarked vehicles is very bad news. The last time we had this they were called Geheime Staatspolizei and we now have a memorial at the location of their head quarters in Vienna. I am not usually someone trying to manifest Godwins law but this is straight out of the facist playbook. Another super worrying fact for me as a European is that the late Dick Cheney was so worried about American democracy and he always looked like Darth Vader to me from across the pond. Suddenly we are on one side, didn’t have that on my bingo card.
Hi. I am the person who wrote the piece. I am not a bot, not Russian intel. YES I want money to go to organizations serving terrified, vulnerable people who are being hunted like dogs primarily because they LOOK like immigrants or other "undesirables."
People need help in MPLS, right now. Be skeptical of what you hear online ... definitely. But there is a limit. At some point you must accept that there is a major crisis, that people are in acute need, and that not helping is complicity.
Thanks for writing it, and thanks for stopping by. Perhaps I'm naive, but I wasn't worried at all that the article might be a Russian fake. Instead, my worry is that it felt like propaganda. Genuine heartfelt propaganda, probably from someone on the ground in Minneapolis, but throughout the piece I felt that you were likely leaving out information so as to create a more compelling call to action.
I don't know for sure that this is true, but I feel like this is a big hurdle that you'll have to overcome if you want to convince skeptical people like me who actually do care. Saying "I will not provide names, sources, etc." might feel necessary, but it makes it harder to convince people. I'm left feeling that there is definitely more to the story than you are telling.
Starting with your first example, "two teachers parked in front of the school were violently extracted from their cars and abducted by ICE officers". I'm not certain, but I'd probably be willing to bet this isn't the full story. Were they "parked in front" because they were at their jobs teaching, or were they attempting to prevent the ICE officers from doing something? Were they participating in a protest or just passing by?
I don't know--and it doesn't mean that what happened is right or proper--but I don't trust you to tell me if you think it might hurt the case you are trying to make. The result is that I feel like I need to at least partially discount the rest of what you have to say. How do we get beyond this?
You can donate to churches that are organizing to help bring food and supplies to people too afraid to leave their homes. It doesn’t have to be a political group.
> My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
Same thought I had. I mean, it sounds pretty bad but it's also making no attempt at all to report an unbiased view. I'd like to hear from officials. What are their goals, and why are they doing it this way? I don't think the majority of Trump voters wanted this kind of harm and chaos.
I fully expect this article to drop off the front page due to flagging in 3…2…1… like every other US politics story that gets posted on this site.
It’s for sure one of the biggest blind spots of this community, which should come as no surprise but is still a shame as it would be nice to have the high level of discourse we can expect from other topics applied to this period that could easily be, for many of us, the most significant geopolitical event of our lifetimes.
I’m curious if that’s a topic the mods have any thoughts on.
It used to be that tech workers were utopian, but now a good half of them, including on this site, are plain fascists. This site is not a utopian dream.
ICE is an extremely unprofessional agency and has no business existing at all in its current form. Abductions of citizens by ICE is real and it crosses a line.
It’s bit ironic that big tech invests so much in politics and engineers act like it’s beneath them. All technological progress tends to be political with its policy winds
The silence from tech companies says a million. There's a ton of huge companies and tech leaders with offices and businesses in Minneapolis and not one of them has had the spine to say anything about the occupation of their city or the people that have been unable to show up for work.
I think increasingly tech workers are starting to understand the size of the issue. You can see the sentiment shifting in previous threads here and even when stories like this are flagged, they still float to the top of /active. That said, it's also obvious that there's a certain group of folks that immediately flag these stories the moment they pop up.
A site that explicitly bans political content gets flooded with political content from a single extremist view, and the cultists still cry over censorship
As a non-American, I wonder how effective these measures are. Way too often I hear that "ICE abducted ... an American citizen". Are these individual cases amplified by the media to attack federal government's reputation or are these a significant percentage of all arrests? In which case, why is ICE doing it, they have absolutely no way of turning such arrests into a positive for themselves? How easy is it for an American or a legal alien to produce documentation proving their legal status - can it be that the fact(?) that many legal residents don't possess the necessary documentation at all times leads to the majority of such arrests/detentions/"abductions".
I know that many here will question ICE's mandate to act even against immigrants who don't have their paperwork in order, but this is another question.
Why would any of this be effective? They drastically reduced the duration of training ICE agents and drastically increased numbers. You should assume they are all incompetent.
This is just the standard precision/ recall tradeoff with recall being prioritised at the extreme (which is usually the wrong way to go for legal field).
A standard situation of 1% positive rate and even if your diagnosis method having 90% accuracy (for both sensitivity and specificity), more than 90% of the positive detection would be false positive.
It's rebounding on them, support for ICE is now negative They're going after the weak and easy targets and dont care about citizenship as Miller has set them daily targets
"Abolish ICE" must be the moderate compromise position
Straight to jail
Yes, I agree. Everyone in ICE or supporting them.
My prediction is that the federal policing will ramp up considerably in blue states, which in turn will cause more clashes. Sooner or later POTUS will invoke insurrection act.
In any case, either he'll try to cancel midterm elections altogether, or he'll have ICE and National Guard roaming and harassing voters when that time comes around. Strategically in very blue or purple areas.
If that works for the midterms, no doubt we'll see more of the same for the presidential election.
Canceling an election would be the ultimate red flag, answerable only by community-level violence against the oppressors at a national scale.
My experience is quite a bit different than what the author is citing. I live just outside of Minneapolis, and have a bunch of friends who live in the city. I have never heard anyone express concern about what ICE is doing. The biggest worries are around commute disruptions due to protesters. It might be because this is a self-selected circle of white collar types, but I can say the report in this story is not universal.
Kinda self-obvious, practically nothing at population-sized samples is universal.
Trump is forcing this to be a Game of Thrones "you win or you die" situation: there is no way out of this with a 60:40 solution, the only possible outcome is complete victory for one side, utter defeat for the other.
[flagged]
I disagree. Notable and impacting politics are often here and foster interesting discussions.
Everything is political, and nowadays everything has relation to tech. ICE is being supported by Palantir and many defense tech companies and that technology impacts and perfects the terror and abuse by ICE in Minneapolis.
It's important for us to talk about this, especially when it is uncomfortable.