If the option of owning my own computer is taken I'll own old computers. If they somehow take that away I'm giving up and moving to a cabin in the woods.
yes, you are an outlier, and one day (presumably <50 years) your hands will be cold and dead, along with your representation in the holdout resistance movement. you must make a bigger impact than standing your (individual) ground
I've given up trying to improve society. They keep voting for the worst idiots they can, buying from the worst exploitative businesses etc. Most people are acting against their own interest and I'm not going to change that.
I'm just trying to isolate myself now from these toxic developments. If society falls into techno fascism after I'm gone, so be it. They wanted it. While I am around I'll shield myself as much as possible by self hosting, custom phone ROMs etc.
I could be wrong, but maybe you trying to shield yourself from these things also cuts you off from the good that's happening?
There's a lot of bad things going on - but (and not saying this as justification) - there always has. There's always some power hungry person that claws their way to a position where they can benefit themselves at the expense of others. But the majority of people want to have good, peaceful lives with a sense of community and connection. Build things. Make art. Laugh. Grow and learn. Wonder about what could be, and build futures towards that.
Don't forsake them because of the all of the bad stuff that gets shoved in your face every day.
It's a dis-service to yourself and the life you have, and it weakens the people and groups that have do have the energy to stand up to not-so-good actors. If you're _happy_ being isolated then definitely go do that, but don't cut yourself off because you're only fed bad news everyday.
It doesn't matter, the choice is being removed from the market. The clouders are already front running and scalping the hardware retail, just like scalpers were doing to GPUs during crypto.
Today's excuse is AI but it's the same process, just on an industrial scale - the clouders buy in bulk at low prices, create shortages and exorbitant retail pricing, which forces you to buy from them, providing them with nice profits. The only difference from vanilla scalping is, they sell the services provided by the hardware, not the actual gear.
The process is unstoppable without legislative intervention, it works with or without the presence of inflation - front running assures the scalping of retail. The high tariffs on Chinese hardware and the draconian restrictions on selling them gear for semiconductor manufacturing remove the only natural remedy - competition.
On the other hand, the existing semiconductor manufacturers are highly incentivized to sell in bulk so some leave the retail market altogether to become exclusive suppliers to big cloud and big OEM - e.g. Micron.
Which is going to work, only if people will buy into it. However if they won't (see Google Stadia or Micrslop's crying about people refusing Copilot) then whole thing will just implode into a lot of cheap hardware everywhere.
I can't imagine a circumstance where I would do that. It's simply a nonstarter. I need to remain in complete control of my machines, and I am not in control of anything in the cloud.
Same feeling here, and I'm already getting frustrated with Windows pushing their crap into my OS. Definitely don't want even more of that.
Beyond work I only use the PC for gaming and watching movies - so really if the only option was 'it has to be in the cloud', then my position becomes "well I guess I don't really play games any more". Not the worst thing.
But whatever. Just because Jeff wants that, doesn't mean it will be so. And like who cares what he thinks? The only hat he ever wears is "how do I make more money", not "how do I ensure people live good lives and enjoy themselves".
Seems like this article misses the enterprise angle which is the main question. I'm sure some gamers aching for an upgrade will sign up for cloud PCs while RAM is overpriced, just like how Geforce Now had a moment while GPUs were overpriced. But does it make any sense for businesses with massive fleets of Windows laptops, and might already have some kind of VDI setup, to replace them with thin clients? Would need some significant progress on the hardware.
I'm not really a big gamer but was looking into buying an xbox again. I already had a controller and thought why not try xbox cloud gaming on my Samsung TV.
With a decent internet connection I now struggle to see why anyone would want to buy a hardware Xbox. Games on the cloud version load instantly, play brilliantly and cost the same as the usual Game Pass as far as I can tell. The catalogue seems smaller maybe but aside from that I see little downside.
I could see it working well for PCs too - as long as the terminal device is seamless. I guess us devs have been renting computers in "the cloud" for decades anyway.
I'd say you are wrong on gamers aching for this. Any amount of latency ruins games, even turn based games lose a lot of their enjoyment when the ui starts getting delayed from user input.
Well, at least for gaming It worked for me quite well with GeForce NOW. I have a MacBook can play here and there some games I like - as a casual gamer it’s fine. I wouldn’t bother to maintain a gaming PC for the casual gaming sessions I have. In this sense - yes, I gave up my non existing gaming PC to rent.
To be honest for 95% of stuff it would be enough to connect my smartphone via USB-C to a dock for mouse/keyboard/displays etc. (I know Microsoft had this and it was an amazing idea) For doing the non standard stuff like gaming/resource intensive development stuff I could rent a cloud pc.
I would love that. For the things I do on my phone the hardware is so oversized - it’s really ridiculous. It’s definitely capable of running desktop things. Most of the apps out there are just webpages anyway (which are responsive).
They could basically abandon MacOS completely and focus on iOS. I mean sometimes it feels like they abandoned macOS already.
I am kinda using LLM for code generation, but the moment I will have the chance (Smaller models or cheaper hardware), I am hosting it locally, because I don't want to give anyone my data.
Currently I am solving this problem by having like 6 AI services and drip-feeding each one with a little bit of problem so there is no context apparent from the queries.
Yeah, he also hoped to rent Venice for his wedding, but he had to move the venue because people got annoyed. They'll probably also get fed up with him shoving his cloud down their throats. He could then move on to mining asteroids using robots, who won't be unionizing.
Bloody rentierists. This is what I've been realizing more and more as this "AI" push combined with rising consumer hardware prices. IMO this is an intentional war on consumers to force them into being digital serfs (like MS and Sun and all the others wanted back in the day). Mainframes->Minis (and mainframes)->Micro/PC->Cloud(and back we go to centralization).
The last time I tried this Microsoft killed my CloudPC trial not even 24 hours after starting it, wiping out the initial work I'd been doing in the computer I was renting.
So, uh. Yeah. I'll get right back on that "cloud PC" thing.
You'll own nothing and like it. Not even your 'own' data. Everything sitting on someone else's server, free to access by whichever government agency feels like it. This is like communism x1000.
Mmm, this is nothing like communism, by any definition I’m aware of. Now, “$ADJECTIVE capitalism”, such as “late-stage capitalism”, that I can go along with.
if everyone had symmetric gigabit, this would be a no-brainer. imagine having auto-scaling CPUs, auto-scaling RAM, etc - it would incentivise some cool OS architecture (yes yes, privacy issues aside etc.)
most of the time i'm doomscrolling, but every now and then you wanna play with linux, or llvm, or some VM cluster.
i bought a beefy rig for these 1% events in my life, and the rest of the time its doing basically nothing. seems a real waste.
If the option of owning my own computer is taken I'll own old computers. If they somehow take that away I'm giving up and moving to a cabin in the woods.
with or without a manifesto?
I knew someone would compare me to Uncle Ted but I don't share political ideology with him. I'd just want to live out my life peacefully in nature.
Considering how countries are trying to push things like Chat Control, I can see them having a hard-on for ideas like this.
"You _must_ use a Cloud computer in order to make sure you're not doing anything illegal."
Amazon et al. will have to pry my tech from my cold, dead hands.
yes, you are an outlier, and one day (presumably <50 years) your hands will be cold and dead, along with your representation in the holdout resistance movement. you must make a bigger impact than standing your (individual) ground
Well, I'm almost 40, so I'm hoping I will be dead by then.
I've given up trying to improve society. They keep voting for the worst idiots they can, buying from the worst exploitative businesses etc. Most people are acting against their own interest and I'm not going to change that.
I'm just trying to isolate myself now from these toxic developments. If society falls into techno fascism after I'm gone, so be it. They wanted it. While I am around I'll shield myself as much as possible by self hosting, custom phone ROMs etc.
I could be wrong, but maybe you trying to shield yourself from these things also cuts you off from the good that's happening?
There's a lot of bad things going on - but (and not saying this as justification) - there always has. There's always some power hungry person that claws their way to a position where they can benefit themselves at the expense of others. But the majority of people want to have good, peaceful lives with a sense of community and connection. Build things. Make art. Laugh. Grow and learn. Wonder about what could be, and build futures towards that.
Don't forsake them because of the all of the bad stuff that gets shoved in your face every day.
It's a dis-service to yourself and the life you have, and it weakens the people and groups that have do have the energy to stand up to not-so-good actors. If you're _happy_ being isolated then definitely go do that, but don't cut yourself off because you're only fed bad news everyday.
Biggest cloud vendor wants everyone to subscribe to his services. Well yeah of course. He has to say that, it's literally his job.
But no for me never. I hate cloud.
> I hate cloud.
It doesn't matter, the choice is being removed from the market. The clouders are already front running and scalping the hardware retail, just like scalpers were doing to GPUs during crypto.
Today's excuse is AI but it's the same process, just on an industrial scale - the clouders buy in bulk at low prices, create shortages and exorbitant retail pricing, which forces you to buy from them, providing them with nice profits. The only difference from vanilla scalping is, they sell the services provided by the hardware, not the actual gear.
The process is unstoppable without legislative intervention, it works with or without the presence of inflation - front running assures the scalping of retail. The high tariffs on Chinese hardware and the draconian restrictions on selling them gear for semiconductor manufacturing remove the only natural remedy - competition.
On the other hand, the existing semiconductor manufacturers are highly incentivized to sell in bulk so some leave the retail market altogether to become exclusive suppliers to big cloud and big OEM - e.g. Micron.
Which is going to work, only if people will buy into it. However if they won't (see Google Stadia or Micrslop's crying about people refusing Copilot) then whole thing will just implode into a lot of cheap hardware everywhere.
I can't imagine a circumstance where I would do that. It's simply a nonstarter. I need to remain in complete control of my machines, and I am not in control of anything in the cloud.
Same feeling here, and I'm already getting frustrated with Windows pushing their crap into my OS. Definitely don't want even more of that.
Beyond work I only use the PC for gaming and watching movies - so really if the only option was 'it has to be in the cloud', then my position becomes "well I guess I don't really play games any more". Not the worst thing.
But whatever. Just because Jeff wants that, doesn't mean it will be so. And like who cares what he thinks? The only hat he ever wears is "how do I make more money", not "how do I ensure people live good lives and enjoy themselves".
Seems like this article misses the enterprise angle which is the main question. I'm sure some gamers aching for an upgrade will sign up for cloud PCs while RAM is overpriced, just like how Geforce Now had a moment while GPUs were overpriced. But does it make any sense for businesses with massive fleets of Windows laptops, and might already have some kind of VDI setup, to replace them with thin clients? Would need some significant progress on the hardware.
I'm not really a big gamer but was looking into buying an xbox again. I already had a controller and thought why not try xbox cloud gaming on my Samsung TV.
With a decent internet connection I now struggle to see why anyone would want to buy a hardware Xbox. Games on the cloud version load instantly, play brilliantly and cost the same as the usual Game Pass as far as I can tell. The catalogue seems smaller maybe but aside from that I see little downside.
I could see it working well for PCs too - as long as the terminal device is seamless. I guess us devs have been renting computers in "the cloud" for decades anyway.
> I could see it working well for PCs too
I moonlight in film restoration. One 2hr movie out of our scanner is easily 16 TiB or more depending on the settings we scanned with.
Getting this uploaded to a remote server would take ~39hr over a fully-saturated 1Gbe pipe.
I'd say you are wrong on gamers aching for this. Any amount of latency ruins games, even turn based games lose a lot of their enjoyment when the ui starts getting delayed from user input.
Well, at least for gaming It worked for me quite well with GeForce NOW. I have a MacBook can play here and there some games I like - as a casual gamer it’s fine. I wouldn’t bother to maintain a gaming PC for the casual gaming sessions I have. In this sense - yes, I gave up my non existing gaming PC to rent.
To be honest for 95% of stuff it would be enough to connect my smartphone via USB-C to a dock for mouse/keyboard/displays etc. (I know Microsoft had this and it was an amazing idea) For doing the non standard stuff like gaming/resource intensive development stuff I could rent a cloud pc.
> To be honest for 95% of stuff it would be enough to connect my smartphone via USB-C to a dock for mouse/keyboard/displays etc.
I was blogging about this basic idea back in 2005, just over 20 years ago:
https://www.damninteresting.com/retired/mobile-phone-as-comp...
I still think it's a good idea, but it sure is being slow to materialize in a practical form factor.
Apple could do this if they wanted to. Hey Apple, Put the Pro back in the iPhone Pro. Give me a dock and and macOS in docked mode.
I would love that. For the things I do on my phone the hardware is so oversized - it’s really ridiculous. It’s definitely capable of running desktop things. Most of the apps out there are just webpages anyway (which are responsive).
They could basically abandon MacOS completely and focus on iOS. I mean sometimes it feels like they abandoned macOS already.
30% App Store fee. Not gonna happen.
I am kinda using LLM for code generation, but the moment I will have the chance (Smaller models or cheaper hardware), I am hosting it locally, because I don't want to give anyone my data.
Currently I am solving this problem by having like 6 AI services and drip-feeding each one with a little bit of problem so there is no context apparent from the queries.
Meanwhile in the cloud: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46620835
It could have been a good idea if tech corps wouldn’t have demostrated to be such huge POS.
Of course, cloud is the new timesharing.
The year of Linux on the Desktop will happen because it will be the only choice for the desktop.
Hasn't client server architecture been a thing for a while? I don't understand the need for this, DRAM prices not withstanding.
but don't i need a pc to use the pc in the cloud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_terminal
Hmmm...I'm not technical well versed but doesn't it sound a bit like the initial Chrome idea???
thin clients suck
Yeah, he also hoped to rent Venice for his wedding, but he had to move the venue because people got annoyed. They'll probably also get fed up with him shoving his cloud down their throats. He could then move on to mining asteroids using robots, who won't be unionizing.
Bloody rentierists. This is what I've been realizing more and more as this "AI" push combined with rising consumer hardware prices. IMO this is an intentional war on consumers to force them into being digital serfs (like MS and Sun and all the others wanted back in the day). Mainframes->Minis (and mainframes)->Micro/PC->Cloud(and back we go to centralization).
You will own nothing and be happy.
The last time I tried this Microsoft killed my CloudPC trial not even 24 hours after starting it, wiping out the initial work I'd been doing in the computer I was renting.
So, uh. Yeah. I'll get right back on that "cloud PC" thing.
Called it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46511477
You'll own nothing and like it. Not even your 'own' data. Everything sitting on someone else's server, free to access by whichever government agency feels like it. This is like communism x1000.
Strange claiming you "called it', people were saying this far earlier than 8 days ago.
> This is like communism x1000.
But it is, in fact, capitalism x1
Don't call this communism, when it's simply end-game capitalism.
Mmm, this is nothing like communism, by any definition I’m aware of. Now, “$ADJECTIVE capitalism”, such as “late-stage capitalism”, that I can go along with.
lol absolutely never.
if everyone had symmetric gigabit, this would be a no-brainer. imagine having auto-scaling CPUs, auto-scaling RAM, etc - it would incentivise some cool OS architecture (yes yes, privacy issues aside etc.)
most of the time i'm doomscrolling, but every now and then you wanna play with linux, or llvm, or some VM cluster.
i bought a beefy rig for these 1% events in my life, and the rest of the time its doing basically nothing. seems a real waste.